In this profoundly moving and deeply relevant episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher: Wisdom Between Colleagues—Insights for Us All, Janina Fisher, PhD, welcomes trauma therapist, TIST facilitator, and activist Jon Lee, LMFT (they/them), for an honest and layered conversation about working with trans and autistic clients—especially in a world where the threats they face are not just historical, but ongoing.
Together, Janina and Jon explore the emotional, clinical, and political weight of supporting clients whose suffering is shaped not just by past trauma, but by active, escalating systemic oppression. As anti-trans and anti-neurodivergent rhetoric and policy gain momentum, therapists face a dual responsibility: to be trauma-informed and to be anti-oppressive.
Jon speaks candidly about the emotional toll of holding space for trans clients when they too are grieving and fearful. They reflect on how therapy can (and can’t) address trauma rooted in systemic harm—and why the goal isn't always “feeling better,” but rather helping clients build internal and external support so they can keep moving forward in spite of everything.
This episode explores:
What it means to do therapy when clients are in real-time danger
The limitations of individual therapy in the face of systemic violence
Why “helping parts” in therapists must learn to tolerate discomfort
The role of mutual aid, community support, and decentralization
How TIST can support trans and autistic clients—when and how it fits
The cost of masking and how to create space for unmasking with care
Common misconceptions and stereotypes about autism in therapy
Why nuance is essential—and how exposure builds it
Accommodations that respect neurodivergent ways of processing and communicating
The overlap between trauma and neurodivergence—especially in how emotion is expressed
How clinicians can work toward decolonization and anti-oppressive frameworks in practice
Jon also shares their personal story of discovering they are autistic, and how this new understanding became a special interest that deepened their empathy and transformed their clinical lens. They challenge therapists to stop forcing neurodivergent and gender-expansive clients into neurotypical norms—and instead co-create spaces that honor difference, flexibility, and complexity.
Rather than asking, “How can I get my client to be more neurotypical?” Jon encourages a different question: “How can I adjust my therapeutic stance to meet the client where they are?”
Whether you’re a clinician, advocate, educator, or simply someone trying to show up better for the people around you, this episode is a compassionate call to hold nuance, embrace imperfection, and engage in collective resistance.
Some resources Jon would love to to share with people:
Crisis resources (including for queer, trans, gender-expansive people) that don't involve non-consensual reporting to authorities -- not for imminent life-threatening emergencies
http://jonleemft.com/resources
Free app including extensive mental health resources by and for trans people
"Modern Therapist's Survival Guide" Podcast episode about clinical considerations and engaging with this current political moment, for trans clients (with Artie Hartsell, MSW - director of organizing, ACLU of North Carolina)
A place to start learning about autism and more resources
"Unmasking Autism" by Devon Price, PhD - book about un-masking autism and intersections with gender identity and trauma manifestations, written by Devon Price, PhD (psychologist of trans experience)
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/688819/unmasking-autism-by-devon-price-phd/