Mobile driver’s licenses (mDLs) and mobile identity documents (mDocs) are rapidly moving from pilot projects to mainstream adoption. With more than five million mDLs already in circulation and half of U.S. states announcing plans to issue them, the identity community is asking an important question: what do these standards really mean for privacy, interoperability, and real-world implementation?
To explore these issues, we hosted a live podcast featuring two leading experts. Andrew Hughes, VP of Global Standards at FaceTec, has spent more than a decade shaping international ISO standards for digital identity, credentials, and biometrics. Ryan Williams, Program Manager of Digital Credentialing at the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA), leads the subcommittee responsible for translating ISO standards into North American implementation guidelines.
Moderated by Richard Esplin, Head of Product at Dock Labs, the conversation offered a rare opportunity to connect the dots between how the ISO standards are written, how they are being interpreted in practice, and what identity practitioners need to know as mDLs roll out worldwide.
(0:00) – Welcome & Introductions
(2:20) – What is AAMVA?
(4:10) – Quick Primer on ISO 18013
(5:10) – Privacy Concerns & “No Phone Home”
(7:28) – Device Retrieval vs. Server Retrieval
(10:20) – Why Server Retrieval Was Added
(15:35) – AAMVA’s Role in Real-World Implementation
(17:14) – Why Server Retrieval Is Controversial
(23:20) – Certification and Conformance Challenges
(26:32) – User Consent and UI Limitations
(29:22) – AAMVA Guidance on Consent & Data Sharing
(32:38) – Should Server Retrieval Be Controversial?
(35:26) – ISO’s Plan to Remove Server Retrieval (2026)
(43:08) – Issuer Keys and the Digital Trust Service (DTS)
(49:09) – Derived Credentials vs. mDLs
(51:18) – What’s Coming in ISO 18013 Edition 2
(57:57) – How AAMVA Aligns with ISO Updates
(59:22) – State of Browser & Standards Implementation
(1:02:24) – Can Wallets Prevent Server Retrieval?
(1:04:33) – Accessing DTS via API or SFTP
(1:06:24) – Closing Thoughts & Key Advice
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