In this episode, Frank van de Ven and Kees Kerstens discuss how ESG reporting has moved from voluntary storytelling to a complex web of certifications, frameworks and audits. Is this helping companies become more sustainable or just making it harder to do the right thing?   Kees explains how Selassie Solutions helps companies turn ESG from a burden into a tool for insight. Frank reflects on how purpose-driven leadership means saying no to shortcuts, even when the system is flawed.   From software to supply chains, and from European policy to planetary ethics - this episode is a candid conversation about staying human in the age of metrics.