Hi, welcome to Human Nurture. I'm your host Jason Brand, couples therapists out of Berkeley, California. This is the second half of the second couple clinical interview with Charley and Yael in my office.   So we pick the interview up at the point where Charley's describing the bind he finds himself in when he gets angry during conflicts with the Yael. He wants to communicate his frustrations so he can feel better and they can work conflicts out together, however, if he gets to fiery his delivery, Yael's only able to hear the anger and not the pain underneath. Charley fear's that tamping down his anger runs the risk of  losing his voice. (You will also remember, from the beginning of the interview, that Charlie feels that Yael does not do her internal work.) So from Charley's point of view, Yael gets overly focused on Charley's anger and does not look at her part in the conflict.  That leaves him as the only one who sees the challenge and is trying to process it.   He's left with a terrible choice, speak up in a way that alienates him from Yael or being heard in a way that does not address the injustice that he sees in the situation. This, you will hear has deep historical roots with his family and with his mom in particular and he also worries that it runs the risk of alienating him in the future from his daughters. So, we pick it up at the bind. Charley and Yael interview 2 part 2 here we go.