Episode Summary
Why do so few women make it to the top in big law—even though they start at the same rate as men? In this episode of HR Voices, host Emily Fenech speaks with Dr. Milana Hogan, Chief Talent Officer at Sullivan & Cromwell, who has spent years studying this exact leadership gap. Drawing from her doctoral research in work-based learning and her role in shaping talent at one of the world’s top law firms, Dr. Hogan shares how two powerful traits—grit and growth mindset—are common denominators among women who rise through the legal ranks.
She explains how these non-cognitive traits can be measured, developed, and embedded into workplace culture—not only at the individual level but also across entire teams. You’ll hear why performance and persistence matter as much as intelligence, how HR leaders can foster these traits in their organizations, and why resilience is the leadership currency of the future.
Whether you're navigating your own career path or looking to develop the next generation of leaders, this episode offers powerful, research-backed insights on what it takes to thrive in high-pressure industries.
Key Timestamps
[00:36] – Introduction to Dr. Milana Hogan and her research on gender gaps in law firm leadership
[01:42] – The leadership drop-off: Why women don’t advance at the same rates
[02:34] – What women can control: Building success through behavioral traits
[03:58] – Defining grit and growth mindset in the workplace
[06:55] – How to identify and assess grit in interviews and resumes
[08:58] – Can grit be taught? Why this is good news for professionals
[14:19] – How HR can promote grit and growth mindset at scale
[18:27] – Why gritty teams outperform and how to build them
[20:38] – Final advice for people leaders: Take care of yourself to lead others
Takeaways
Recognize the career cliff: Even with equal entry rates, women drop off in leadership—understanding why is key to solving it.
Grit = sustained effort + passion: It's not about sprinting; it's about showing up consistently, especially in high-pressure careers.
Growth mindset is a belief system: People who believe they can improve tend to persist longer and achieve more.
Grit and mindset are learnable: Even low scorers on assessments can develop these traits through intentional practice.
Embed traits in culture: Use training, evaluations, and leadership storytelling to normalize grit and growth mindset.
Team-level resilience matters: High-performing teams operate with shared perseverance—not just individual effort.
HR leaders must refill their own tanks: Self-care is not optional when your job is to support others’ success.
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