In front of a live audience at the Hewlett Foundation’s New Common Sense Conference in March, Felicia and Michael talk to New York Times bestselling author Heather McGhee about her book The Sum of Us and how racism impacts the implementation and perception of public goods and services. Her research for the book, and for the audio documentary podcast that followed, took her across America and gave her unique insight into how racial resentment can be an obstacle to a better world—and how to overcome it.  Heather argues that the “zero-sum mindset” has altered many white people’s support for public infrastructure because they falsely believe progress for people of color must come at their expense. To combat zero-sum politics, she says, we need to work across our differences to achieve a common good. Heather calls the material improvements that come from this the “solidarity dividend.” “There are gains, real gains, that we can unlock—cleaner air and water, higher wages, better funded schools—but through the power of cross-racial solidarity,” she explains. Heather, Michael, and Felicia also talk about how powerful stories shape our beliefs and politics; how housing, inequality, and racial segregation are linked; and how neoliberalism undercut the aspirations of the civil rights movement. Presented by the Roosevelt Institute, The New Republic, and PRX. Generous funding for this podcast was provided by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and Omidyar Network. Views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions and beliefs of its funders. You can find transcripts and related resources for every episode at howtosaveacountry.org.