Shannon and Tamara welcome Patricia Budd and Michael Kovaks, survivors and thrivers in their own right, of Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate. Listen to Patricia's story of fighting for her survival, and how Michael, in a fight to save his mother, discovered his older sister's abuse of hundreds of women.

We were very careful to not use triggering language, but please be advised that we discuss spiritual, sexual, and physical abuse vaguely.