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Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
VP Workforce Solutions
33 episodes
5 hours ago
️ Episode Title: Passion vs. Opportunity: What Really Drives Career Success What matters more for career success — passion or opportunity? In this episode of Hire Expectations, we unpack one of the biggest career debates in today’s evolving job market. Join our hosts as they explore how career development has changed and why the path to professional growth isn’t as linear as it once was. From recruitment insights to real-world hiring strategies, this episode dives into how job seekers and employers alike can find the sweet spot between what inspires them and what the market demands. You’ll hear how passion can be discovered through unexpected opportunities, why visibility and execution matter more than ever, and how hiring for potential — not just qualifications — builds stronger teams. Key Takeaways: Passion and opportunity are both essential for long-term career success. The modern job market rewards adaptability and curiosity. Employers should nurture passion, not just expect it. Passion is a muscle that grows stronger with use. Visibility is everything — show your results, don’t just talk about them. Tune in to learn how to align your passion with opportunity, build momentum in your career, and create a path that feels both purposeful and practical.
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Careers
Education,
Business,
Society & Culture,
Self-Improvement
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️ Episode Title: Passion vs. Opportunity: What Really Drives Career Success What matters more for career success — passion or opportunity? In this episode of Hire Expectations, we unpack one of the biggest career debates in today’s evolving job market. Join our hosts as they explore how career development has changed and why the path to professional growth isn’t as linear as it once was. From recruitment insights to real-world hiring strategies, this episode dives into how job seekers and employers alike can find the sweet spot between what inspires them and what the market demands. You’ll hear how passion can be discovered through unexpected opportunities, why visibility and execution matter more than ever, and how hiring for potential — not just qualifications — builds stronger teams. Key Takeaways: Passion and opportunity are both essential for long-term career success. The modern job market rewards adaptability and curiosity. Employers should nurture passion, not just expect it. Passion is a muscle that grows stronger with use. Visibility is everything — show your results, don’t just talk about them. Tune in to learn how to align your passion with opportunity, build momentum in your career, and create a path that feels both purposeful and practical.
Show more...
Careers
Education,
Business,
Society & Culture,
Self-Improvement
Episodes (20/33)
Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Passion or Opportunity!?
️ Episode Title: Passion vs. Opportunity: What Really Drives Career Success What matters more for career success — passion or opportunity? In this episode of Hire Expectations, we unpack one of the biggest career debates in today’s evolving job market. Join our hosts as they explore how career development has changed and why the path to professional growth isn’t as linear as it once was. From recruitment insights to real-world hiring strategies, this episode dives into how job seekers and employers alike can find the sweet spot between what inspires them and what the market demands. You’ll hear how passion can be discovered through unexpected opportunities, why visibility and execution matter more than ever, and how hiring for potential — not just qualifications — builds stronger teams. Key Takeaways: Passion and opportunity are both essential for long-term career success. The modern job market rewards adaptability and curiosity. Employers should nurture passion, not just expect it. Passion is a muscle that grows stronger with use. Visibility is everything — show your results, don’t just talk about them. Tune in to learn how to align your passion with opportunity, build momentum in your career, and create a path that feels both purposeful and practical.
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1 week ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Re-Writing the Rules of Money with Rick Goldring
What if you could become your own banker? In this episode of Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom, we sit down with Rick Goldring — former Mayor of Burlington and financial advisor at Ascendant Financial. Rick shares his unique perspective on leadership, resilience, and the Infinite Banking Concept, a strategy that empowers individuals and business leaders to take back control of their financial future. He discusses the pitfalls of traditional financial advice, the history of infinite banking, and why financial literacy is more critical than ever. Rick also highlights the importance of liquidity, stability, and long-term planning, encouraging leaders to rethink their approach to money and embrace the power of becoming their own banker. LISTENERS - Learn more from the book Rick discusses, and access their preferred pricing: Becoming Your Own Banker by Nelson Nash: shop.ascendantfinancial.ca
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1 month ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Neurodiversity in the Workforce
Building Inclusive Workplaces that Thrive In this episode of Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom, we’re joined by Carolyn and Jordan from the Centre for Diverse Learners for a powerful conversation about neurodiversity in the workplace. They share what inspired the organization's recent rebrand—from a focus on disability to a celebration of diverse strengths—and how that shift is impacting both the community and the corporate world. From legal obligations to leadership modeling, this episode dives into what it really means to create inclusive environments where neurodivergent talent can thrive. Whether you're an HR professional, a leader, or just curious about how to better support diverse minds at work, you'll walk away with actionable insights and new perspectives. Key Takeaways: Neurodiversity is gaining long-overdue recognition in today’s workforce conversations. The Centre for Diverse Learners rebrand reflects a shift from viewing individuals as disabled to recognizing their strengths. Inclusive workplaces benefit everyone—not just those who are neurodivergent. Accommodations shouldn’t require proof of disability; they should be accessible for all. Diversity of thought fuels innovation and long-term success. Employers have legal and ethical responsibilities to foster inclusivity. Documentation can be a powerful tool in advocating for workplace accommodations. Leadership must actively model inclusion to set the tone for culture. Community engagement can disrupt systemic barriers and cycles of poverty. Customized training is key to building truly neurodiverse-friendly organizations. Tune in for an honest and insightful conversation that challenges the status quo and offers a roadmap for change.
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3 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Leading with Purpose with Shaheryar Mian
In this episode of Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom, we sit down with Shaheryar Mian, a visionary executive, director on the Burlington Chamber of Commerce board, and the kind of leader who turns ideas into action. Shaheryar shares how he has navigated a career across finance, consulting, entrepreneurship, and authorship, all while staying deeply rooted in community, purpose, and people-first leadership. We explore what it means to reinvent yourself, the underrated power of listening, how civic engagement shapes leadership, and why success is less about the title and more about the legacy you leave behind. From writing a novel to launching businesses in Canada and Dubai, Shaheryar brings bold insight, humility, and humour to the conversation. This is an episode about building the kind of career and life that actually fulfills you.
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5 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Why Women Aren’t Reaching the Boardroom FAST ENOUGH with Tracey Newell
In this episode of Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom, we’re joined by Tracy Newell — a seven-time board member, leadership champion, and passionate advocate for women in leadership. Tracy dives deep into the challenges women face on their journey to the boardroom, including imposter syndrome, lack of access to mentorship, and navigating a corporate world still catching up with the need for diversity. Drawing insights from her new book, Hers for the Taking, Tracy offers practical advice for women looking to grow their careers with intention, build confidence, and step into leadership with clarity and conviction. This episode explores how women can identify their North Star, lift one another up, and claim the opportunities they’ve earned — not just hope for them. Whether you're early in your career or ready for the C-suite, this conversation is packed with wisdom, empowerment, and a bold reminder: leadership is Hers for the Taking.
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6 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
The Power of Feedback with Moatassem Moatez
In this episode of Hire Expectations, the VPWS ladies dive into the transformative power of feedback and how it shapes leadership, communication, and corporate culture. Special guest Moatassem Moatez, founder and CEO of MyCourier, joins the conversation to share his entrepreneurial lens on using feedback as a tool for performance improvement, employee engagement, and business growth. From the nuances of feedback in startups vs. corporate environments to the impact of remote work on team dynamics, this episode explores how intentional communication can make or break progress. Mo shares strategies for giving feedback that actually lands—and more importantly, drives change. Whether you're a business leader, people manager, or part of a growing team, this episode offers real talk on how to create a culture where feedback isn’t feared, but embraced. Key Takeaways: Feedback fuels business success when it’s timely, clear, and actionable Leaders must create safe spaces and listen beyond words Structured vs. flexible feedback styles in corporate and entrepreneurial settings Embracing feedback culture improves team performance and engagement Innovative delivery methods—like video feedback—can elevate connection remotely The hardest feedback often leads to the biggest breakthroughs
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7 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Hypnosis and Career Success with Kristyn Livermore
In this episode of Hire Expectations, we sit down with Kristyn Livermore of West End Hypnosis to explore the powerful connection between mindset and career success. Whether you’re actively job hunting or feeling stuck in your current role, this conversation dives into how hypnosis can help you overcome mental barriers, manage stress, and build lasting confidence. Kristyn demystifies common misconceptions about hypnosis, walks us through what a typical session looks like, and shares how self-hypnosis can be a game-changer in your personal and professional life. Plus, she opens up about her own healing journey—and why understanding emotional patterns is the real key to moving forward. Tune in to learn how healing from past workplace trauma and creating safety in your nervous system can be the missing link in your job search strategy. Kristyn also shares the link to get a FREE consult with her! Key Takeaways: Hypnosis helps job seekers reduce stress and build unshakable confidence Emotional patterns often hold us back more than the situations themselves Free screenings ensure hypnosis is the right fit for each client Feedback isn’t failure—learning to receive it is a skill Self-hypnosis puts the power of mindset in your hands Healing is possible—even if you're not "in crisis"
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7 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
How Cybercriminals Are Targeting Your Employees – with Birmingham Consulting
Think cybersecurity is just an IT issue? Think again. In this eye-opening episode of Hire Expectations, we sit down with Scott and Christina Birmingham of Birmingham Consulting to expose one of the fastest-growing threats to businesses today — insider attacks fueled by cybercriminals offering employees major cash in exchange for sensitive data. We break down: How and why employees are getting targeted. The mistakes companies make that leave them vulnerable. Why cybersecurity is everyone’s responsibility — not just IT. What HR and leadership teams need to do now to foster a security-first culture. How AI is revolutionizing (and weaponizing) cybercrime. If you think your organization is too small to be at risk — think again. You cannot afford to miss this episode. Tune in, take notes, and yes… go change that password.
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8 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Revolutionizing Recruitment with Suky Sodhi
The Future of Recruitment with Suky Sodhi ️ Episode Summary In this insightful episode of Hire Expectations, we sit down with Suky Sodhi, a powerhouse in the recruitment and staffing industry, to explore the evolving landscape of hiring, leadership, and AI-driven recruitment practices. Suky shares her expertise on modern interview methods, the importance of diverse leadership, and how allyship in the workplace fosters stronger, more inclusive teams. She also breaks down the impact of AI in recruitment, discussing both its benefits and potential biases. As recruitment continues to change, Suky emphasizes the people-first approach, ensuring that both candidates and employers receive a tailored, meaningful experience. From redefining how we conduct interviews to adapting leadership styles for diverse teams, this conversation is packed with valuable insights for recruiters, business leaders, and job seekers alike. Key Takeaways: ✅ Interviews should be adaptable—no two candidates are the same. ✅ Traditional hiring methods fall short in assessing candidate potential. ✅ Diverse leadership requires flexibility and understanding. ✅ Allyship is an ongoing commitment to workplace equity. ✅ Recruitment practices must evolve to enhance the candidate experience. ✅ AI is disrupting hiring, but biases must be addressed. ✅ A people-first approach is the key to successful staffing. ✅ Building strong relationships is crucial for recruitment success. Tune in to learn how you can stay ahead in the evolving world of recruitment! #SukySodhi #Recruitment #Staffing #Leadership #Allyship #AIRecruitment #InterviewMethods #DiverseLeadership #CandidateExperience #HiringTrends
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8 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Workforce Development in Burlington with Terry Caddo
How can Burlington businesses attract and retain top talent in today’s evolving workforce? In this episode of Hire Expectations, we sit down with Terry Caddo, President & CEO of the Burlington Chamber of Commerce, to discuss the critical workforce trends shaping local businesses. From talent retention and upskilling to the impact of housing and transportation on workforce availability, this conversation dives into the challenges and opportunities Burlington faces in building a strong, future-ready workforce. Terry shares insights on employee expectations, business collaboration, and how the Chamber connects companies with the right talent. Key Takeaways: ✔ Workforce development requires a holistic approach involving business, education, and policy. ✔ Housing & transportation issues directly impact talent acquisition and retention. ✔ Work-life balance & flexibility are must-haves for today’s employees. ✔ Community collaboration strengthens workforce strategies and business success. ✔ The Chamber plays a pivotal role in supporting local businesses with workforce solutions. Tune in to discover how Burlington’s business community is navigating these workforce challenges and what steps can be taken to build a thriving, sustainable workforce.
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9 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Modern HR Practices with Your Gen-Z Coworker!
In this episode, the Hire Expectations ladies discuss modern HR practices with a focus on understanding and engaging Gen Z employees. Emily Van Straten from ThinkHR joins us and shares her insights on the misconceptions surrounding Gen Z, the impact of technology on their work habits, and the importance of a life-over-work philosophy. The conversation emphasizes the need for flexibility and customization in HR approaches to better meet the needs of today's diverse workforce. In this conversation, Emily discusses the importance of generational communication, particularly between Gen Z and older generations, emphasizing the need for open dialogue in the workplace. She highlights current HR trends, including the integration of AI and skills-based hiring, and stresses the importance of adaptability in the evolving work environment. Emily also shares actionable steps for businesses to prioritize employee well-being, focusing on communication and mental health resources. Lastly, she introduces her career game plans, which help individuals align their strengths and passions for professional growth. takeaways! Gen Z is often misunderstood as lazy, but they prioritize work-life balance. Employers need to adapt their approaches to engage Gen Z effectively. Technology plays a crucial role in how Gen Z communicates and works. Life over work philosophy is essential for today's workforce. Trust should be given to employees upfront, not earned over time. Flexibility in scheduling can significantly improve employee satisfaction. Not all Gen Z employees aspire to be influencers; many seek traditional roles. Understanding generational differences can bridge workplace gaps. Customizing HR practices can lead to better employee engagement. Open communication is vital for understanding employee needs. Generational communication is key to workplace harmony. Open dialogue can lead to significant changes in organizations. HR trends are shifting towards adaptability and skills-based hiring. Employee well-being should be prioritized through open communication. Regular check-ins with staff can improve morale and productivity. Mental health resources are essential for employee satisfaction. Career game plans can help individuals find their professional sweet spot. Identifying passions can enhance job satisfaction and performance. Employers must take action on employee feedback to retain talent.
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9 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Youth Mental Health with Nadine Perry & Nelson Borges
Breaking the Silence: Youth Mental Health, Parenting, and Creating Safe Spaces In this compelling episode of Hire Expectations, we dive into the pressing issue of youth mental health, exploring the challenges faced by parents, educators, and employers in fostering a supportive environment for children and families. Our conversation touches on: Recognizing the Signs: How mood changes and social withdrawal can indicate mental health struggles in children. Open Communication: Building trust through active listening and authentic conversations between parents and children. Breaking the Stigma: Addressing cultural and societal barriers that prevent families from seeking help. Creating Safe Spaces: The role of schools, workplaces, and communities in supporting youth mental health. Practical Solutions: Encouraging emotional intelligence at home, implementing mental health education in schools, and fostering workplace cultures of awareness and support. Our guests share personal stories and actionable advice, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and continuous commitment to mental health awareness. Whether you're a parent navigating tough conversations, a teacher striving to create a safe classroom environment, or an employer seeking to support your team, this episode offers insights to help you make a difference. Let’s break the silence and work together to build a world where youth mental health is prioritized, supported, and understood.
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9 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Goals & Intentions with Lora Caven
Hey 2025!! In our first episode this year, we sit down with Laura Caven, a high-performance coach, to unpack her transformational journey from entrepreneur to coach. Laura shares the pivotal moments that led her to embrace intentional living and effective goal setting, offering listeners actionable strategies to conquer challenges and achieve personal and professional growth. Together, they dive into the principles of clarity, energy, courage, productivity, and influence—pillars of high-performance coaching. Laura also reveals insights from her 'Own Your Year' workshop, which focuses on reflection and intention for a successful year ahead, and teases her upcoming programs designed to empower women in leadership and entrepreneurship. Takeaways: The power of clarity as the foundation of goal setting. Why motivation alone isn’t enough—discipline and consistency are key. Strategies for overcoming life’s transitions with intentional action. Harnessing both masculine and feminine energy for leadership success. The role of community and accountability in achieving big goals.
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10 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Cooking up Talent with Melinda Paletta
Join us for a mouthwatering episode as we dive into the extraordinary journey of Melinda Paletta, a celebrated culinary expert and entrepreneur. From her roots in a food-focused family to becoming a leader in the hospitality industry, Melinda offers a wealth of insights that will resonate with culinary enthusiasts, industry professionals, and aspiring leaders alike. In this engaging conversation, Melinda shares: Her Culinary Journey: Growing up in her family’s food business and the cultural influences that shaped her career. Hospitality Recruitment Challenges: Tackling high turnover rates and finding the right talent for the fast-paced industry. Post-Pandemic Lessons: The importance of prioritizing work-life balance to create resilient teams. Employee Recognition: How showing appreciation and rewarding initiative fosters loyalty and excellence. Cultural Diversity in Food: Leveraging diverse culinary traditions to enhance menu offerings and team dynamics. Melinda also introduces her unique show, Basil & Sage TV, where she blends culinary arts with spirituality, creating a one-of-a-kind experience for viewers. Key Takeaways: Recruitment in hospitality should focus on candidates' potential, not just their resumes. Employee recognition and rewards are critical for retention in high-stress environments. Cultural adaptability and appreciation are game-changers in the hospitality world. Exceptional hospitality employees thrive on learning and initiative. Don’t miss this inspiring episode filled with actionable insights, leadership lessons, and a celebration of food culture. Whether you’re a foodie, a hospitality professional, or someone passionate about leadership, this episode is sure to satisfy your appetite for knowledge. Listen now to explore the intersection of culinary arts, recruitment, and leadership with Melinda Paletta!
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11 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Breaking Barriers with Nelson Borges
️ Breaking Barriers: Men's Mental Health Matters In this heartfelt episode, we sit down with Nelson Borges, founder of Capillary Wave, to discuss his personal journey with anxiety and the importance of addressing men's mental health. Nelson shares his experience of having his first panic attack at 49 and how it led him to create a supportive community for men navigating mental wellness. Together, they delve into practical tools like journaling, art therapy, and small daily changes that can make a significant impact on mental health. The conversation highlights the power of vulnerability, resilience, and peer support in recovery, while emphasizing the need to normalize discussions about mental health. If you're seeking insights on breaking the stigma and fostering a healthier mindset, this episode is a must-listen. Keywords: men's mental health, anxiety, community support, Capillary Wave, art therapy, mental wellness, vulnerability, resilience, mental health recovery, peer support
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11 months ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Agnes Teper - Morale and Re-Org
In this insightful episode of Hire Expectations Beyond the Boardroom, Melanie and Kerri are joined by Agnes Tepper, co-founder of Elevated HR and Consulting, to explore the complexities of reorganization and its profound impact on employee morale. Tailored for HR professionals and small business leaders, this episode dives into the importance of strong leadership, clear communication, and effective people strategies in navigating organizational change. Agnes shares essential HR strategies for maintaining morale during transitions, such as celebrating small wins and fostering a culture of innovation. With practical advice for both small and large teams, she illustrates how empathy, transparent communication, and an aligned people strategy can turn challenges into growth opportunities. Agnes also recounts a compelling success story of guiding a mid-size company through a merger, ensuring employees felt valued and engaged. Tune in for expert tips on managing reorganization with a focus on organizational culture, employee morale, and effective change management.
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1 year ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Navigating AI Securely with Joe Apps
In this episode of the Hire Expectations Podcast, Melanie and Kelly welcome back Joe Apps to discuss the intersection of AI and employment, focusing on the growing security risks related to managing sensitive employee data. Joe shares expert insights on how candidates can protect their personal information during the hiring process, the importance of password management, and practical strategies for businesses to stay ahead of cyber threats in today’s rapidly evolving tech landscape. Key Takeaways: AI impacts both employment and data security. Candidates should ask employers about data protection practices. Be cautious with publicly available information, as it can be exploited by AI. GDPR enforces stricter data privacy laws in Europe, while employers in the West are not required to respond to data inquiries. Use complex passwords and consider a password manager for better security. Businesses must update systems regularly to mitigate risks. AI-driven antivirus software can bolster cybersecurity.
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1 year ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Morale and Re-Organization
Navigating Reorganization: How to Maintain Employee Morale During Organizational Change In this episode of the podcast, we dive into the critical topic of maintaining employee morale during times of organizational change and restructuring. Reorganizations often trigger feelings of uncertainty and anxiety among staff, which is why effective leadership must prioritize clear and consistent communication. Learn how transparency in leadership decisions can build trust, alleviate anxiety, and foster a more resilient workforce. We discuss the value of involving employees in the reorganization process, how showing empathy during times of change can boost team spirit, and why celebrating small wins is crucial for maintaining a positive environment. Plus, discover how regular updates and team-building activities post-reorganization can reduce uncertainty and speed up morale recovery. Whether you're a business leader navigating a company restructure or a team member looking for ways to stay motivated during change, this episode offers actionable insights and best practices to support long-term success. Employee engagement and workplace culture can thrive, even through difficult transitions, with the right approach. Key takeaways: The importance of transparency and clear communication during reorganization. How involving employees in the process can help improve morale. Why celebrating small victories and providing regular updates reduce uncertainty. The role of empathy, patience, and support in fostering a positive work environment. Don't miss this episode if you're looking to lead your team through change with confidence and compassion!
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1 year ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
‘Buki’s Back’ Buki Hough Part 2
In this episode, the discussion revolves around creating inclusive workplace environments by addressing offensive language and promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) through effective strategies and training programs. Key Topics Covered: Addressing Offensive Language: The importance of documenting incidents and addressing offensive language professionally, with involvement from HR or leadership when necessary. DEI Awareness and Training: Emphasizing the need for transparency in collecting demographic data and working closely with legal teams to ensure compliance. Tailored Training Programs: The significance of conducting needs assessments to design DEI programs specific to organizational challenges, ensuring interventions are meaningful and not just a “check-the-box” exercise. Leadership’s Role: Leaders must set the tone for inclusivity, provide resources, foster accountability, and lead by example. Clear communication and transparency about progress and areas for improvement are crucial. Mentorship and Sponsorship: The importance of mentoring and sponsoring equity-deserving employees to promote genuine diversity and inclusion. This episode highlights that building a thriving DEI culture requires intentionality, continuous learning, and a commitment to creating safe spaces for open discussions. Leaders play a pivotal role in ensuring DEI is embedded into the company’s values, not just as a policy, but as an everyday practice.
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1 year ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
Joseph Apps of Joe Apps Technology Support
In this episode, we explore the evolving world of IT hiring with Joseph Apps, the visionary CEO of JoeApp's Technology Support. Joseph shares his expert knowledge on key industry trends and the critical skills every IT professional needs to stay competitive, including Google and Microsoft management, cloud infrastructure, and preparing for the rise of AI. This episode is packed with actionable advice for IT professionals and business leaders aiming to build a strong, future-proof IT team. Don’t miss Joseph’s practical strategies for navigating the complexities of IT recruitment and creating a culture of innovation and security.
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1 year ago

Hire Expectations: Beyond the Boardroom
️ Episode Title: Passion vs. Opportunity: What Really Drives Career Success What matters more for career success — passion or opportunity? In this episode of Hire Expectations, we unpack one of the biggest career debates in today’s evolving job market. Join our hosts as they explore how career development has changed and why the path to professional growth isn’t as linear as it once was. From recruitment insights to real-world hiring strategies, this episode dives into how job seekers and employers alike can find the sweet spot between what inspires them and what the market demands. You’ll hear how passion can be discovered through unexpected opportunities, why visibility and execution matter more than ever, and how hiring for potential — not just qualifications — builds stronger teams. Key Takeaways: Passion and opportunity are both essential for long-term career success. The modern job market rewards adaptability and curiosity. Employers should nurture passion, not just expect it. Passion is a muscle that grows stronger with use. Visibility is everything — show your results, don’t just talk about them. Tune in to learn how to align your passion with opportunity, build momentum in your career, and create a path that feels both purposeful and practical.