In this episode, we speak with Zhou Qinrou, a PhD student from NTU School of Social Science, whose research is challenging the foundational assumptions of how we understand bureaucracy. Qinrou takes us to walk through her thesis that discusses "What truly drives public servants to be good beyond simply doing well?" We dive into the critical Chinese concept of "zuoren" and "zuoshi". At the end, Qinrou also gives her personal understandings of the commitment, which supported her throughout her impactful PhD journey.