Jason Helgerson is the founder of the Helgerson Solutions Group, as well as former Medicaid Director of both New York and Wisconsin. Jason’s group works in the health and social services space with a particular focus on bringing those two worlds together through effective value-based payment designs. While Medicaid Director under Governor Cuomo, Jason designed and oversaw NY DSRIP program, one of the largest and most audacious Medicaid reform efforts in American history. Jason is also the host of Health2049 a podcast that explores how to use design strategy to fix big societal challenges, including those in health. In this wide-ranging interview, our hosts Aaron Holman, Instructor in the Department of Health Policy and Management and second year graduate student Abigail Bartlett ask Jason about where he sees innovation coming from in value based payment (VBP) design, where work remains to be done to complete a transition to VBP, and how consultants may or not be helping this transition.