To defend like a human, you first have to think like a hacker. In this episode, Ron Eddings sits down with Chris Dale, Co-Founder and Chief Hacking Officer at River Security, to explore the human side of hacking, where curiosity, persistence, and vigilance meet defense. Chris shares how the traditional idea of penetration testing has evolved into a continuous journey of discovery, and why reconnaissance and storytelling are critical tools for modern defenders. From real-world breach stories to lessons on trust and responsibility, this episode reveals how thinking like a hacker, and acting like a human can transform the way we approach cybersecurity.   Impactful Moments00:00 - Introduction and massive breach overview03:00 - Trusted systems become exposure points05:00 - Meet Chris Dale of River Security07:00 - The problem with traditional pen testing08:30 - Continuous reconnaissance and real-world risk10:00 - Knowing yourself as a security principle13:00 - The meaning of continuous vigilance15:00 - Turning cybersecurity lessons into stories18:00 - Storytelling and mindset in defense19:30 - Final takeaways on fundamentals and vigilance   Links:Connect with our Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisad/ Read the Tech Radar article here: https://www.techradar.com/pro/security/f5-breach-fallout-over-266-000-instances-exposed-to-remote-attacks Check out our upcoming events: https://www.hackervalley.com/livestreams Join our creative mastermind and stand out as a cybersecurity professional:https://www.patreon.com/hackervalleystudio Love Hacker Valley Studio? Pick up some swag: https://store.hackervalley.com Continue the conversation by joining our Discord: https://hackervalley.com/discord Become a sponsor of the show to amplify your brand: https://hackervalley.com/work-with-us/