Is compliance just a checkbox, or the backbone of real security? Returning to the show with decades of hard-earned insight, Jeff Man makes the case that compliance, especially PCI-DSS, isn't just a formality; it's foundational to modern security. As one of the original architects of the NSA Red Team and a 20-year PCI veteran, Jeff explains how this often-misunderstood framework has shaped everything from pen testing to vendor accountability. Ron and Jeff unpack the six core goals of PCI, how red teams and SaaS builders are directly affected, and why many security teams resist compliance efforts, despite relying on them to get essential buy-in and funding.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction01:00 – Does compliance equal security?02:09 – Jeff returns with PCI firepower03:15 – Defining security vs. compliance05:33 – “Show me what you’re doing”06:45 – Six goals at PCI’s core10:45 – Security is watching, not reacting13:30 – Companies secure because they have to15:00 – PCI gave red teams their jobs16:30 – Stripe and Square absorb PCI burden19:30 – PCI 4.0 causes confusion21:00 – Vendors aren’t your trusted advisors22:30 – “Hate me, but I’ll help” Links: Connect with our guest, Jeff Man: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreyeman/ Check out our upcoming events: https://www.hackervalley.com/livestreams Join our creative mastermind and stand out as a cybersecurity professional: https://www.patreon.com/hackervalleystudio Love Hacker Valley Studio? Pick up some swag: https://store.hackervalley.com Continue the conversation by joining our Discord: https://hackervalley.com/discord Become a sponsor of the show to amplify your brand: https://hackervalley.com/work-with-us/