This trialogue continues a series of discussions exploring the latest interdisciplinary research into tantric completion stage practices such as yogas of dream, sleep, and death. Dr Tawni Tidwell is a biocultural anthropologist and doctor of traditional Tibetan medicine. Dr Michael Sheehy is the Director of Research at the Contemplative Sciences Center in the Department of Religious Studies in the University of Virginia. Dr Julian Schott is an Indologist, Tibetologist, and assistant professor at the University of Vienna. In this episode, the panel explore the ethical and methodological challenges of the studying Buddhist tantra; consider the various agendas behind scientific research into meditation, gtummo, and dream yoga; and argue for the centring of human liberation alongside human wellness and profit motives. Dr Sheehy presents his working model for achieving contemplative fluency across a range of meditation styles, suggests that scientific study of meditation can be seen as a type of cultural translation, and considers the use of etic frameworks and methods to study religious and cultural forms. Dr Tidwell argues for the validity of subjective experience, Dr Schott points out the tensions within religious traditions, and the panel consider if neuroscience might one day teach Buddhism something new about itself. … Link in bio. Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’. … Topics include: 00:00 - Intro 02:11 - Why study tantra with science? 04:01 - Complexity of tantra 05:10 - Skills and transformations 05:50 - Michael’s meditation model of “instances and styles“ 08:48 - Multi-modular styles and ngondro 11:17 - Contemplative fluency 13:58 - gTummo and overriding the autonomic nervous system 16:21 - 2 reasons why Vajrayāna is said to be the fast path 17:55 - Why is tantra so complex? 19:37 - Pushing to one’s limits is key to tantra 22:29 - 3 classic contemplative approaches in Buddhism 25:27 - Radical transformation and social transgression 27:56 - A tension within the tradition 29:03 - Changing practice along the path 31:04 - Sādhanā is not linear 34:25 - Critical challenges when studying tantra 35:41 - The importance of neurophenomenology 39:44 - Scientific vs traditional explanatory frameworks 43:28 - Relative and the absolute 46:08 - Transmitted blessings 48:07 - Trust in the traditions 50:33 - Moving beyond the traditions with science 52:38 - A second order, cultural translation 54:58 - Paradox of the paradigm 56:26 - Defending the etic perspective 58:06 - Multi-disciplinary teams 59:37 - The fundamental academic principle 01:01:58 - Pros and cons of the etic and emic 01:03:16- Will science improve the Buddhist tradition? 01:04:56 - Neuroplasticity and aging 01:06:50 - Reshaping Buddhism is imperative 01:09:26 - A cultural-religious looping effect 01:13:13 - Dream yoga training with VR 01:18:50 - Secular extraction approaches and making the traditions better 01:21:25 -MBSR and Healthy Minds 01:22:57 - Subjective experience is valid 1:25:16 - Human freedom beyond the social and political 01:31:59 - Admitting the religious aspect 01:34:07 - Prioritising human freedom 01:35:48 - A reflexive process 01:37:09 - Is scientific study for the good? 01:38:30 - Future episode plans Previous panel discussions: - https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=sheehy Previous episodes with Dr Julian Schott: - https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=schott To find our more about the panel, visit: - https://michaelrsheehy.com/ - https://centerhealthyminds.org/about/people/tawni-tidwell - https://stb.univie.ac.at/en/about-us/team/julian-schott/user/schottj85/inum/1083/backpid/198178/ For more interviews, videos, and more visit: - https://www.guruviking.com Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James