In this episode of Governance Futures, Eugene and Jamilya speak with Anthony Leutenegger, CEO of Aragon, about tooling, regulation and DAO governance today. We dig into why ownership and control matter more than vague notions of decentralization, and how design choices like Aragon OSx are reshaping the way DAOs govern themselves. We also explore lessons from experiments like Lido’s dual governance, the impact of emerging regulation such as the Clarity Act, and what it could mean if decentralized ownership becomes a legal requirement. In this conversation we also discuss the role of modular systems, incentives, and AI agents in shaping the next generation of governance. This episode is for those questioning what real decentralization means, and how governance in Web3 must evolve to balance founder control, community power, and legal clarity. Some of the materials we mention in the episode:- Aragon documentation: https://docs.aragon.org/- The Growth Engine: How veLockers & Gauges Drive Value Accrual: https://blog.aragon.org/the-growth-engine-how-velockers-gauges-drive-value-accrual/- Aragon OSx: https://docs.aragon.org/osx-contracts/1.x/index.html#the_aragon_osx_dao_framework- Anthony's talk at ETH Prague 2025 "Ownership and Governance always needs the right Incentives": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAIA625hLR0Listen to this and more episodes on all platforms: Apple : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gov-futures-trailer/id1823028614?i=1000714675608Spotify : https://open.spotify.com/show/6QRkrWmq21Z66jRJtN2UIuFollow us on X: https://x.com/gov_futuresTime-stamps:00:00 Intro 01:02 Introduction to Governance Futures Podcast 02:39 The Importance of Human-Centered Governance 03:57 Rebuilding Aragon: The Need for Modular Governance 04:18 The Evolution of DAOs and Governance Models 09:57 Decentralization: A Spectrum of Control 12:13 Aragon's Mission and Governance Infrastructure 14:08 Decentralization: Leadership vs. Control 18:39 Challenges of Multisig and On-Chain Governance 21:55 The Role of DAOs as Executors 23:22 Reframing DAOs and Governance Structures 24:48 The Evolution of Aragon and Its Vision 26:29 Introducing Aragon OS X: A Modular Governance Framework 30:03 Dual Governance: Aligning Interests in DAOs 36:05 Regulatory Impact on Governance 43:59 Proactive Governance in a Changing Regulatory Landscape 46:04 Building Adaptive Organizations 47:52 Core Principles of Successful Governance 49:13 Aligning Incentives for Token Holders 51:37 The Role of Trust in Governance 53:00 AI's Impact on Future Governance 57:15 Understanding Gauges in Tokenomics 01:01:06 Challenges in Modular Governance Adoption 01:04:26 Quiz Segment 01:05:32 Outro