In this episode of The Governance Futures Podcast, Eugene Leventhal & Jamilya Kamalova speak with Angela Walch about the promises and pitfalls of replacing failing institutions with technologies like crypto and AI. Angela discusses the collapse of rule of law, the myth of “tech as governance,” and the limits of algorithmic solutions to political problems. Together, we explore how protocol systems assign roles that shape our behavior - and what Web3 emergencies reveal about where power really lies. Angela Walch is an independent researcher and writer. She writes the Angela Walch publication on Substack, and was a core researcher in the Ethereum Foundation’s inaugural Summer of Protocols program in 2023. Her most recent work is The Protocol System Experience, which provides a conceptual framework for human rule systems of all kinds. Angela was a Professor of Law at St. Mary’s University of Law from 2012 - 2023. Her research has focused on blockchain governance, decentralization, systemic risks, blockchain language, and the intersection between these areas. Her work on blockchains as financial market infrastructure, the operational risks of open source software governance, the role of software developers as fiduciaries of public blockchains, and the role of miners as intermediaries has been foundational to the field of cryptoeconomic systems, and is recognized internationally. Angela has advised policy makers and regulators around the world, including the Federal Reserve, the White House, the Bank of England, and the BIS, and has testified before the US Senate Banking Committee. Her research has been featured in The Economist, Bloomberg, Wired, Coindesk, and more. Angela's work and publications we mention in this episode: * “Blockchain Emergencies & Open-Source Software Governance: Is ‘Rough Consensus’ a Suicide Pact?” (2021) https://commons.stmarytx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1631&context=facarticles* Substack Note on Governance and Protocols https://substack.com/@angelawalch/note/c-106330495 * "The Fundamentals of Protocol Systems” (2023) https://summerofprotocols.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/The-Fundamentals-of-Protocol-Systems-Angela-Walch.pdf Listen to this episode on all platforms: - Apple : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gov-futures-trailer/id1823028614?i=1000714675608- Spotify : https://open.spotify.com/show/6QRkrWmq21Z66jRJtN2UIu- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gov_Futures- Follow us on X: https://x.com/gov_futures   00:00  Teaser and Introduction 02:10   Setting the Stage 02:20  Institutional Collapse and Tech's Role 03:04  Skepticism Towards Tech Replacing Institutions 05:56 Misconceptions About Technology 09:09  AI and Crypto Governance Challenges 12:59 Roles and Perceptions in Governance Systems 22:02 Decentralization and Power Dynamics 23:52 Emergency Responses and Governance Legitimacy 31:39 Addressing Conflict of Interest in DAOs 34:17 The Mythology of Governance Systems 38:17 Handling Emergencies in Crypto and Beyond 44:05 The Role of Emergency Response Groups in Web3 49:39  Building Robust Governance Systems from Scratch 55:15  The Importance of Funding Basic Research 58:38  Quick-Fire Quiz and Conclusion