In this episode of Governance Futures, hosts Jamilya and Eugene speak with Mike Cooper. Mike Cooper is an experienced social scientist with 17 years of leadership in impact strategy and measurement for numerous multilateral, bilateral, and other social impact groups, including the World Bank, various UN agencies, USAID, FCDO, MCC, and others. He specializes in the curation and use of evidence for decision-making in decentralized systems. He is currently working with Metagov on creating standards for impact planning and measurement. Mike brings his background in international development to the challenges of Web3, exploring how impact should be defined, measured, and planned for in decentralized ecosystems. The conversation covers the culture of Web3 grant programs, the pitfalls of vanity metrics, and why problem definition must come before funding solutions. Mike shares insights on how decentralization does (and doesn’t) correlate with impact, the importance of creating an “evidence commons” for governance experiments, and lessons Web3 can learn from commons management and collective action models. The episode closes with Mike’s one-word vision for governance: variety.Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction and hosts’ reflections on Web3 grants 04:52 – Mike’s background in international development and impact framing 07:13 – Defining impact: problems, strategies, and measurement 10:24 – Grants as marketing vs. solving real problems 12:36 – Web3’s potential as a transformational tool for social impact 14:14 – Lessons from decentralization in international development 16:22 – Culture of Web3 grants and gaps in transparency 18:05 – Comparing Web3 grants with traditional gold standards 20:23 – Emerging standards and the role of Metagov’s Grant Impact Handbook 22:04 – Why decentralization doesn’t guarantee impact 23:41 – Governance paralysis, inefficiencies, and planning gaps 25:36 – Performative decentralization vs. honest centralization 27:32 – Experimentation, evidence, and governance design 29:58 – Outputs vs. outcomes vs. impact 34:08 – Network growth vanity metrics and flawed assumptions 36:23 – Problem definition as the foundation for impact 38:04 – Measuring long-term impact and sustainability of projects40:00 – Developing the Grant Impact Handbook 42:25 – AI, mechanisms, and knowledge translation in grant governance 44:01 – Mechanism libraries and evidence standards 46:24 – Building an evidence commons for Web3 50:12 – Cultural and organizational hurdles to adopting evidence use 52:11 – Incentives for grantees and grant programs 54:29 – Funding pressures and bull/bear market dynamics 56:26 – Leadership, hierarchy, and who drives impact culture 58:44 – Capital allocation’s role in ecosystem success 01:00:12 – Learning from mistakes and failure festivals 01:02:12 – The case for an evidence commons in Web3 01:05:50 – Champions, culture, and incentives for evidence use 01:08:14 – Toward performance standards and shared learnings 01:10:11 – Quiz: commons, principles, decentralization, variety 01:11:12 – Closing thanks and outro