On this episode of Going Underground, we speak to Dr. Michael O’Hanlon, Senior Fellow and Director of Foreign Policy Research at the Brookings Institution, former member of the Defense Policy Board of the US Department of Defense, and former CIA Advisor. He discusses the legacy of the US’ disastrous invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the importance of ending the Ukraine proxy war for Trump’s agenda and the MAGA base, his desire for US military trainers to be sent to Ukraine as part of a peace deal between Washington and Moscow, why Russia’s reaction to NATO expansion was predictable, and more. In the second half, Afshin Rattansi challenges him on his claims that Russia tried to use ‘shock and awe’ against Ukraine, why Russia can’t trust an agreement with the United States, the US’ hypocrisy of condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine with its own history of illegal invasions, the state of the International Relations scholarly field in the US, and much more.