Welcome back to Gnostic Insights and the Gnostic Reformation on Substack. I have another treat for you this week, a conversation with my brother Bill and myself concerning what is knowledge? How do we know what is true? This is a field of philosophy known as epistemology. My brother Bill was a philosophy professor. He taught this at the university level for many years. I hope you enjoy this conversation and you learn something from it.



Cyd Ropp, Ph,D, Gnostic Insights author and podcast host



[Cyd] 



Okay, recording in progress. Here we are. Hi, Bill. Welcome back to Gnostic Insights.



Bill Puett, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, Philosopy. Cyd's brother.



[Bill]



Well, it's nice to be back. I thought of a topic here that we've considered for a while. Let's get it done.



[Cyd]



All right!



[Bill]



Okay. So the question is, what is knowledge? And what is it to really know something to be the case?



[Cyd]



Wait a minute. Is this epistemology? Is that what is meant by epistemology?



[Bill]



That's right. Theory of knowledge, epistemology. It's as old as the hills. In fact, the conflict was back with Plato and Aristotle. Aristotle's saying we can get knowledge, and I'll explain kind of how we do it, theoretically do that. Plato said, no, you can't get it that way. You have to know it from the beginning. How about that? That's what we call our gnosis, right?



[Cyd]



Right. That's why Plato is included in the scrolls of the Nag Hammadi. Yes.



[Bill]



So the question is, where does gnosis fit in with regard to the knowledge? Okay. That's the point. So I thought, okay, let's just take it from the point of the scientific position, because the presumption is, isn't it, that science gives us knowledge, right? That's the presumption. So the debates that take place out there, someone says, well, that's not science, and so therefore they're negating what's being said. Okay, let's get this one answered.



It's a common belief that scientists believe that scientific method gives us knowledge. And so anything that is gained outside of science is not known. In other words, the word sometimes is dogma, right? The idea, you hold a position, but you can't verify it scientifically, but you hold it, so you're being so dogmatic. So let me make this point here.



Here it is. The best that science can really give us is well-founded belief, and I'm going to argue that. So that's the best. So why do I say that? Well, the scientific method is based on logical principles of modus ponens and modus tollens, okay? And let me explain what that means.



[Cyd]



How do you spell that?



[Bill]



M-O-D-U-S, modus ponens, P-O-N-E-N-S, okay? And tollens, T-O-L-L-E-N-S.



Now, symbolically, okay, I'm going to use words like this, and you'll get it. You'll get it for your listeners, by the standards. If P gets you Q, and if you have P, then you have Q. That's modus ponens. The idea, conditional. If P gets you Q, and you got P, then you have Q. That's the conclusion.



[Cyd]



You're saying if P is obliged to bring Q along, then if you don't have Q, you don't have P.



[Bill]



Exactly, that's well said. So in science, the problem occurs, you could put it this way. A problem is created, say that the science,