“If you’re not paying for the product, you are the product.” It’s a line we’ve all heard, but in an AI-powered world of constant surveillance, it’s never felt truer - or scarier. Today’s guest is someone who has spent years trying to fix it. Joe Jerome is the Senior Public Policy Manager at DuckDuckGo - the search engine that built a business by saying no to surveillance. No cookies, no creepy trackers, no data slurping for profit. Just search, without the stalker. Joe’s spent time inside DC’s policy circles, the Center for Democracy and Technology, and now sits at the heart of the privacy vanguard - working to reshape internet regulation, user rights, and the future of ethical tech. We talk surveillance capitalism, the shifting browser wars, emerging AI, and whether regulators, judges and governments have the spine to go up against Big Tech’s trillion-dollar dragnet. And we ask: Can a company like DuckDuckGo survive and scale - without selling you? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.