When we see people acting in ways that seem irrational or incomprehensible, it’s easy to see them as ignorant or evil. But what if there’s more to it? What if, beneath the surface, there’s a much more complex mix of emotions—joy, fear, loyalty, and even desperation—that we tend to dismiss or fail to see? Erik Engheim writes the Substack ”Erik Explores,” which covers politics, history and culture from a Nordic perspective. In this episode, I got a chance to talk with Erik about how he was wrong about Trump supporters, and his apology to them for misjudging their morality. We discuss the nature of Republican support for Donald Trump, and the sense of joy that is present within the MAGA movement.