In this week's episode, we’re joined by A.J. Warner, CSO at Offchain Labs, to discuss his bold vision for Arbitrum as a “digital sovereign nation.” We explore key differences between L1s and L2s, Arbitrum’s business model, capital allocation strategies, and how the new OpCo structure will drive governance and operational efficiency. Enjoy! Resources Hope for the Future of Arbitrum: https://x.com/ajwarner90/status/1908143389658194094 Arbitrum Forum - OpCo: https://forum.arbitrum.foundation/c/dao-grant-programs/operation-company-opco/63 – L2s and L3s are history. Supra Containers give you dedicated, customizable AppSpace on Supra’s Layer-1 to rescue you from the costs, complexities, and fragmentation of L2s and L3s.  Containers help you build with better customization and control than appchains at a fraction of the cost. Use your own token as the gas token, create local fee markets with custom gas amounts or just go gasless, and scale on demand whenever you need to. Supra Containers are secured by Supra’s L1 nodes and get access to Supra’s 500k TPS throughput, sub-second consensus latency, and all their built-in services like oracle price feeds and onchain randomness without any overhead. Supra is also MultiVM compatible so you can easily deploy your EVM, Move, and SVM smart contracts here. Get all the freedom, control, and tools you need to build super dApps and bring the world onchain. To learn more, visit www.supra.com/blockworks – Ledger, the global leader in digital asset security, proudly sponsors Expansion! As Ledger celebrates 10 years of securing 20% of global crypto, it remains the top choice for securing your assets. Buy a LEDGER™ device now, and build confidently, knowing your BTC, ETH, SOL, and more are safe. Buy now on https://shop.ledger.com/?r=1da180a5de00. – Missed DAS? Join us from June 24th-June 26th at Permissionless IV! Use Code EXPANSION10 at checkout for 10% off! Tickets: https://blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv - - Follow AJ: https://x.com/ajwarner90 Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_ Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_ Subscribe on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3QLwfTs Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1 Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ -- Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (02:07) Thinking About L1s vs L2s (10:02) Supra Pre-Roll (10:28) Ledger Pre-Roll (10:46) L2s Ability to Allocate Capital (20:32) Arbitrum's Business Model (26:35) Supra Mid-Roll (27:20) Ledger Mid-Roll (27:55) Key Growth Metrics (33:36) Capital Allocation Concerns & Arbitrum Governance (48:47) Arbitrum Stakeholders & DAO Structure (56:36) Operational Challenges & the Future of Arbitrum - - Disclaimer Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation. Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Michael, Nick, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.