This podcast started off with reflecting on the power of embracing fallibility. Dr John Flach, my guest, then brought his own experiences and how a renowned scientist helped him and supported him when he experienced a setback in life. We then spoke about kindness and briefly touched on the importance of social resilience. The discussion then moved from kindness to humility and the importance of humility in understanding and learning from surprises. From humility we moved into courage and why courage is so important to break free from dogma and become critical thinkers. We ended this session with the importance of metaphysics, meaning making and methodology. Our discussion ended with why we need to be more kind and humble to pursue science.