Welcome to Elevator Systems! This episode will explore the empty nest stage from a Bowen family systems theory perspective. Joining Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White today is John Bell.

John Bell is an ordained United Methodist pastor who became interested in Bowen theory after hearing Peter Steinke say, "Good leadership rises about the anxiety of the group."  He has spent the last 30 years putting these theoretical words to practice in congregational, family, and civic life. In addition to training and mentoring clergy, John works with non-profit leaders and organizations who have an interest in sustainable and adaptive practices. John and his wife Alison work and live near Chicago and have three grown children.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The balance of dependency and independence in relationship, and the usefulness of parents working on maintaining a supportive yet independent relationship with adult children.
• How other family changes can influence functioning in the empty nest phase, such as divorce, remarriage, grandchildren, retirement and aging of parents.
• The transition to an empty nest can reveal the roles children played in the marriage and allows for a reevaluation of relationships.
• The importance of open communication and curiosity about each other's goals and aspirations.

• Examples include: analogy of a plate spinning routine, the family cellular plan, and variation among families navigating changes and independence.

This episode is useful for families going through the empty nest stage or professionals wanting to think more systemically about this time of life. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Kathleen Smith, “Where’s All Your Energy Going?”
• Eric Brenn Plate Spinning on Ed Sullivan Show
• Living Systems Conference: Aging - Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

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Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Children #Kids #Launching #LeavingHome #GrowingUp #EmptyNest #LifeStages #YoungAdult #Resources #Transitions #Goals #Aspirations #Communication #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.