In this vulnerable and deeply personal conversation, I sit down with therapist and dear friend Wesley Tan, a multidisciplinary creative who has spent his life studying humans — through psychology, storytelling, and the nuanced art of listening. Together, we explore the complex emotional terrain of abusive relationships, and how empathy, identity, and self-perception can quietly become the cages we live in. This episode is especially close to home. Wes has helped me navigate some of the emotional aftermath of my own abusive relationship, and much of what we discuss comes from both lived experience and the therapeutic lens he so gently offers. It’s a conversation about the messy human parts — the things we feel long after we’ve left, and the questions we carry with us about who we are and how we love. We talk about how acting naive can be a strategy to disarm conflict, and how truly caring sometimes means being willing to make things awkward. We unpack why intelligence or emotional insight doesn’t protect us from manipulation — and how being “too smart” can actually make us more susceptible, especially when our identity is tied to empathy, fixing, or understanding. We also explore the cycle of rupture and repair — not just in relationships with others, but in the one we have with ourselves. From the discomfort of watching a friend go through abuse, to the isolation that often follows, to the profound reminder that everyone is ultimately their own saviour — this conversation holds a mirror up to the patterns we inherit, perform, and sometimes outgrow. If you’ve ever lost yourself in someone else’s pain, felt trapped in your own empathy, or questioned who you are after walking away — this episode is for you.