In this wide-ranging conversation, political economist Patrick Bond joins me from Johannesburg to trace the lessons of South Africa’s struggles — from the fight against apartheid and Big Pharma to today’s battles over BRICS, Palestine, climate, and global capital. We dig into the meaning of “sub-imperialism,” the hypocrisies of governments that talk left but walk right, and the urgent question of how to end genocide and ecological collapse in real time. What does internationalism look like after the failure of unipolar power? And can “power to the people” still break the system’s grip?0:00 – Coming Soon / Intro5:23 – From Wharton to Mandela’s Office14:36 – Where are we within capitalism and BRICS?22:33 – BRICS: Anti-Empire or Just Sub-Empire?31:06 – Slaying the Neoliberal Dragon35:14 My Enemy’s Enemy?39:23 Botha and the Rubicon43:25 Imperialism and Zionism and the Revolutionary Violence Moment52:50 The Hypocrisy of BRICS and Israel57:53 – “Hague-Schmague”: When International Law Collapses1:05:31 – Gaza and why won’t anyone do anything?1:15:17 – Western Liberals and “Zionism”?1:24:32 – After Thoughts and Next GuestLessons of Black Panther: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s02e07-the-lessons-of-black-panther-chloe-valdary/id1470490447?i=1000489634117For more from Jay visit whatjaythinks.com