In this episode, William Tincup speaks with Bernard Coleman of Gusto and Stela Lupushor of Reframe.Work. The conversation touches on a range of topics, including the challenges of implementing DEI programs in the workplace, the importance of measuring progress, and the need for real leadership engagement. Bernard emphasizes the importance of not just looking at metrics like hiring, progression, engagement, and retention, but also the need for leaders to truly engage and change their behaviors. Meanwhile, Stela stresses the importance of looking at DEI initiatives from a personalized perspective, acknowledging the unique needs of different employees, and not just relying on a one-size-fits-all approach. The guests also share their thoughts on the impact of the pandemic on DEI initiatives, particularly with regards to the return to office and potential cultural clawbacks. They also discuss the need for managing expectations, acknowledging that change is often incremental, and emphasizing the importance of having empathy for those who may be resistant to DEI initiatives.