If you’re feeling burned out by performative marketing, endless “hacks,” and business advice that sounds more like gaslighting than guidance — you’re not alone. And you’re not broken. You’re just tired of bullshit.
In this episode of The Ugly Phase, Olya Grovel sits down with Louis Grenier — contrarian marketer, founder of Stand the F*ck Out, and author of the same brutally honest book — to talk about what actually works when you want your brand to stand out.
This is not another 3-step funnel or bro-marketing blueprint. Louis breaks down why most marketing advice is trash, how triggers (not just pain points) drive action, and why insight-foraging is the new unfair advantage.
What we cover in this episode:
Why most “problem-unaware” strategies are a waste of time
What founders get wrong about product-market fit (and what to do instead)
Why demand always comes before product — not the other way around
How to find insights that actually change your messaging (and your results)
The marketing lies we’ve normalized — and how they’re hurting us
The burnout that comes from trying to stand out in a sea of sameness
Why it’s not about chasing your passion — but doing what feels natural
Bonus: Louis shares his alter ego trick to stop self-sabotage and unlock real creativity (without pretending to be someone you’re not).
💡 Power Quotes:
“There are no secret sauces. If someone says there is, they’re gaslighting you.”
“Don’t market to people who’ve never shown a willingness to act. Follow the evidence.”
“Triggers drive action. Pain points alone don’t.”
“Marketing isn’t changing. Humans aren’t changing. Tools are.”
📝 Homework: Create your alter ego. Name them. Pick a symbol or item that represents them. Step into that energy before your next scary decision. (And no, you don’t have to be Lady Gaga to do this.)
🎧 Tune into this no-BS conversation if you’re done chasing tactics and ready to build something real.
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Where to Find Louis:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisgrenier/
Follow me on IG @olyagrovelofficial
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olya-grovel-ryabinina/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheUglyPhase Website: https://olyagrovel.com/