In this episode, Shahram Khosravi, Professor of Social Anthropology at Stockholm University, reflects on a lifetime of theorizing from outside the law, and his ongoing urge to create otherwise.
When Shahram talks about theorizing from outside the law, he is not using a metaphor, he is referring to his experiences growing up Bakhtiari, and the refusal of his people to be dominated by colonial powers, whether in Tehran, or European. Shahram also talks about being Young and Defiant in Tehran, to name one of his books, and about crossing borders as a so-categorized Illegal Traveler, to name his auto-ethnography, or auto-theory of borders. And, he talks about refusing modes of knowledge production that are hostile to him and his people. As Shahram explains, coming from Indigenous People, such refusals are not about negation, but rather about creation, and walking in the fog of the unknown
At the time of this recording, in June 2025, Israel and the United States were bombing Iran, putting people outside of the law, again. In the episode, we take this moment to reflect on how deep we are falling, and how dark the times are, in which we are again witnessing genocide in the name of freedom, human rights, and democracy. But, we also talk about how we can build on the movements that came before us, and from other places, to fight these dark times.
And, in this spirit, we listen to music that transports into those other worlds. We listen to Aida Shahghasemi, who sings the song Gole Bavineh, taking us to the Bakhtiari world of Shahram’s youth. We then listen to Parvin, who sings the song Ghoghaye Setargan, which carries different Iranian revolutions in it. Finally, we listen to Soheil Nafisi, who sings Nima Yushij’s poem Ay Adamha, in which a person drowning in the sea cries out to a festive crowd on the shore and the old world they represent, demanding to be seen, and demanding a liveable world.
Enjoy listening.
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In this episode, Shahram Khosravi, Professor of Social Anthropology at Stockholm University, reflects on a lifetime of theorizing from outside the law, and his ongoing urge to create otherwise.
When Shahram talks about theorizing from outside the law, he is not using a metaphor, he is referring to his experiences growing up Bakhtiari, and the refusal of his people to be dominated by colonial powers, whether in Tehran, or European. Shahram also talks about being Young and Defiant in Tehran, to name one of his books, and about crossing borders as a so-categorized Illegal Traveler, to name his auto-ethnography, or auto-theory of borders. And, he talks about refusing modes of knowledge production that are hostile to him and his people. As Shahram explains, coming from Indigenous People, such refusals are not about negation, but rather about creation, and walking in the fog of the unknown
At the time of this recording, in June 2025, Israel and the United States were bombing Iran, putting people outside of the law, again. In the episode, we take this moment to reflect on how deep we are falling, and how dark the times are, in which we are again witnessing genocide in the name of freedom, human rights, and democracy. But, we also talk about how we can build on the movements that came before us, and from other places, to fight these dark times.
And, in this spirit, we listen to music that transports into those other worlds. We listen to Aida Shahghasemi, who sings the song Gole Bavineh, taking us to the Bakhtiari world of Shahram’s youth. We then listen to Parvin, who sings the song Ghoghaye Setargan, which carries different Iranian revolutions in it. Finally, we listen to Soheil Nafisi, who sings Nima Yushij’s poem Ay Adamha, in which a person drowning in the sea cries out to a festive crowd on the shore and the old world they represent, demanding to be seen, and demanding a liveable world.
Enjoy listening.
Ep 24: Why no borders. With Bridget Anderson, Cynthia Wright, and Nandita Sharma (English).
De Verbranders
1 hour 10 minutes 17 seconds
1 year ago
Ep 24: Why no borders. With Bridget Anderson, Cynthia Wright, and Nandita Sharma (English).
Our guests in this episode are Bridget Anderson, Cynthia Wright, and Nandita Sharma. We speak to them about their editorial called “Why no Borders”, which they published in 2008. In it, they distill the scholarship on borders at the time, in order to draw the conclusion that we should get rid of borders.
Taking the editorial as our starting point, we speak about collaboration, and the joy of working together with people with whom we share a politics, and a sense of humor. And we talk about no borders as a practical political project, that is carried out in the here and now, by all of us who refuse to conform to nationalized borders.
Bridget, Cynthia, and Nandita bring two pieces of music to the episode: No One Is Illegal, by Renovatio, and Absolute Power, by Akala.
We recorded this episode right after the Maritime Solidarities conference that brought Bridget, Cynthia, and Nandita to Amsterdam in September of 2023. This was a few weeks before the Israeli state took the Hamas attack on the 7th of October as an opportunity to escalate the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza and the Westbank. We don’t speak about Palestine in the episode. But, as we publish this in January 2024, we want to state that the freedom dreams we express in this conversation apply to Palestine in Particular. And right now, we must act. We must reject this total destruction of life. We must resist the occupation, we must resist settler colonialism, and we must resist ethnic-nationalist states. And, we must refuse to lose, as Bridget puts it in this episode.
Graphic design by Thomas from Dark Roast (www.instagram.com/thomas.darkroast)
Theme music: David (guitar) and Joris (drums)
Theme music: Allen (accordion) and Neske (violin), after Doina from the Fanfare Ciocarlia
De Verbranders
In this episode, Shahram Khosravi, Professor of Social Anthropology at Stockholm University, reflects on a lifetime of theorizing from outside the law, and his ongoing urge to create otherwise.
When Shahram talks about theorizing from outside the law, he is not using a metaphor, he is referring to his experiences growing up Bakhtiari, and the refusal of his people to be dominated by colonial powers, whether in Tehran, or European. Shahram also talks about being Young and Defiant in Tehran, to name one of his books, and about crossing borders as a so-categorized Illegal Traveler, to name his auto-ethnography, or auto-theory of borders. And, he talks about refusing modes of knowledge production that are hostile to him and his people. As Shahram explains, coming from Indigenous People, such refusals are not about negation, but rather about creation, and walking in the fog of the unknown
At the time of this recording, in June 2025, Israel and the United States were bombing Iran, putting people outside of the law, again. In the episode, we take this moment to reflect on how deep we are falling, and how dark the times are, in which we are again witnessing genocide in the name of freedom, human rights, and democracy. But, we also talk about how we can build on the movements that came before us, and from other places, to fight these dark times.
And, in this spirit, we listen to music that transports into those other worlds. We listen to Aida Shahghasemi, who sings the song Gole Bavineh, taking us to the Bakhtiari world of Shahram’s youth. We then listen to Parvin, who sings the song Ghoghaye Setargan, which carries different Iranian revolutions in it. Finally, we listen to Soheil Nafisi, who sings Nima Yushij’s poem Ay Adamha, in which a person drowning in the sea cries out to a festive crowd on the shore and the old world they represent, demanding to be seen, and demanding a liveable world.
Enjoy listening.
