One of the most salient and interesting aspects of the war in Ukraine is the seemingly omnipresent threat of what is still a relatively new technology: the drone. Whether Bayraktars or Lancets, small reconnaissance drones or long-range strike ones, both the Ukrainian and Russian armies have designed, bought, and deployed an stonishing variety of these new weapons.

What does the proliferation of this new platform tell us about the role or roles drones are likely to play in the future? And what can we extrapolate, from the rapid evolution of drone technology and tactics, about the shape and dynamics of major state-on-state warfare in the coming decades?

To discuss all this and more I’m delighted to be joined again by a previous guest on this podcast, Dr. Mauro Gilli, Senior Researcher in Military Technology and International Security at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology’s Center for Security Studies in Zurich.