In this eye-opening episode, Nienke Bloem talks with organizational consultant and founder of Met Klanten, Sarah van der Wiel, about how systems thinking can transform the way we approach customer experience. Sarah shares her unique blend of expertise - from CX and behavioral design to organizational anthropology and systemic work - and introduces us to her newest method: Customer Constellations. Together, they explore: Why customers are not outside the system, but part of it How to recognize deeper, systemic root causes behind recurring customer pain points What language, power dynamics, and organizational history have to do with CX Why slowing down might be the smartest move CX leaders can make How to create lasting change that actually sticks If you've ever felt like you're fixing the same issues over and over again, this episode is a must-listen. Time stamped overview: 00:00 Emotional connection with banks 05:53 Trends in cultural and behavioral design 09:27 Customers shape the ecosystem 12:59 Reflecting on a 11-year-old event 15:34 Breaking Customer System Silos 17:36 Cultivating curiosity through feedback 23:04 Humanizing Customer Experience transformation 26:29 CX leadership & narrative change 30:11 Dutch childcare benefits scandal 31:22 Fall in love with problems 35:09 Systemic leadership literature challenges 37:25 Launch of Customer constellations Resources mentioned:🔗 You can connect with Sarah here 🌐 Learn more here  Dutch: Barbara Hoogendoorn books English: Els van Steijn – The fountain   About Nienke:Nienke Bloem is often called the Customer Experience speaker in the blue dress.  She's a global CX thought leader, educator and a global keynote speaker who inspires audiences with best practices and proven methodologies. She leads a speaking practice, a CX game company and a training business; she breathes Customer Experiences and is author of two CX books. Her two-day Customer Experience Masterclass is known as the best program to prepare for your CCXP and she is the go-to person for CX leaders who want to advance their leadership and bring direct results from their Customer Experience transformation programs. Since 2020, she hosts a CX Leadership Masterminds program and helps leaders spice up their leadership and deliver an engaging CX Story including a solid CX Strategy. Besides, she is a modern-day pilgrim and found the parallel with leading customer centric transformations.  With her over 20 years of corporate experience, she speaks the business language. Her keynotes and education programs in Customer Experience are inspiring and hands-on. She is one of the few Recognized Training Partners of the CXPA and it is her mission to Make Customer Experience Work and help you deliver business results. Subscribe to her weekly CX Greetz to stay tuned.