Steve Grumbine is the founder of Real Progressives and the host of the podcast Macro N Cheese. In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, Steve went from being a lifelong conservative to a vocal supporter of Modern Monetary Theory.

MMT is a relatively new economic framework that is best known by way of bestselling author Stephanie Kelton’s The Deficit Myth as well as her role as an advisor to the Bernie Sanders campaign.

In our conversation we discuss why MMT is such a game-changer for our understanding of the role of government and how we structure society.

In the episode, we power through a bunch of MMT concepts to get to some of the more salient material so watching this video of Steve outlining some of the basic ideas at length is highly recommended.

If you’ve ever wondered why so many wealthy societies are so bad at taking care of their citizens, this conversation goes beyond diagnoses and into prescription and provides a real pathway forward that lets us move beyond barriers and into the realm of really making structural change.