David Willbrand didn’t set out to become a startup lawyer — he climbed smokestacks for the Ohio EPA before landing in law school “by default.” Today, he’s the Chief Legal Officer of Pacaso and a nationally recognized leader in venture and startup law.

In this episode of Corporate Law Lab, host Neil Taylor (Director of the Corporate Law Center at UC Law) talks with David about what separates lawyers who “get it” in startup land from those who don’t, why earnouts usually end in litigation, and how founders distort reality — and why that’s not always a bad thing.

This episode is full of real talk for law students, young lawyers, and anyone wondering what it takes to thrive at the legal edge of innovation.