In this episode Sophie talks to Lucy Wright who, in 2014, completed her PhD titled 'Making traditions, practising folk : contemporary folk performance in the Northwest of England : a practice-led enquiry'. They discuss the importance of creative uncertainty and how often people are talking at cross purposes when discussing practice research. Lucy reflects on her turn from ethnographer to artist. She talk about her precarious career in short term academic jobs, which rarely recognised her practice-led approach, and her recent decision to leave academia and become a freelance socially engaged artist and researcher.