In a world where values like dignity, agency, and solidarity are often tucked into policy decks and mission statements, the real question becomes: so what?

In this episode, I’m joined by two powerhouse thinkers and practitioners:

Alex Motshwanetsi Mathole, governance expert and co-lead of the V20 Sustainable Development stream, and

Thabani Mlilo (@datninjathabs ), sustainability leader with deep experience across mining, climate, and ESG, also a co-lead of V20.

Together, we interrogate the promise and the performance of values-based leadership. Together, we dive into a conversation on what value-based leadership really looks like in practice—not just as an idea, but as a decision-making framework that shapes policy, business, and power.

The V20 isn’t just a think tank—it’s a call to action. A collective of African leaders pushing for leadership grounded in integrity, inclusion, and future accountability.

If leadership is about decision-making—what anchors those decisions, and who pays the price when values are optional?