How does Ben Crowe get elite athletes to the top of their game? What he asks footballers, surfers and tennis players to do seems counter intuitive, and a lot of the work happens off the field. (R) Ben Crowe is a mindset coach who has worked with elite athletes like surfer Steph Gilmore, tennis superstar Ash Barty, and the Richmond Football Club. But Ben's method of coaching seems counter-intuitive. Rather than telling these athletes they're the best, he encourages them to own their flaws, make sense of their life stories off the field, prioritising vulnerability and human connection, so they can take both wins and losses in their stride.  Further information Originally broadcast in July 2021. Ben Crowe's new book, Where the Light Gets In, will be published by HarperCollins in January 2026. This episode of Conversations was produced by Michelle Ransom Hughes, executive producer was Carmel Rooney. It explores sport, NBA, basketball, football, Bayern, David Beckham, Hawks, Tigers, Magpies, Warriors, Tottenham, Jake Weatherald, Champions League, Wimbledon, Tennis Open, US Open, Australian Open, Arsenal, UCL, sports trading, UEFA, FIFA, mindset coaching, positive, books, writing, origin story, grief, death of a father, josh giddey. To binge even more great episodes of the Conversations podcast with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.