In this episode, we explore Chapter 12: “Defeating the Taleban?” (pages 390–418), a sobering analysis of Pakistan's long and arduous struggle against insurgency and extremism. Lieven examines the multifaceted challenges the Pakistani state faces in confronting the Taliban—militarily, politically, and ideologically. We unpack key themes such as the role of tribal dynamics, the limits of U.S. influence, the Pakistani military's strategic calculations, and the often-overlooked power of local resilience. As always, Lieven urges us to view these conflicts through the lens of Pakistan’s complex socio-political fabric, not through simplistic comparisons to Western models of counterinsurgency.

Join us as we navigate this critical chapter to better understand why defeating the Taliban is not just a question of firepower—but of state legitimacy, identity, and historical context.