In this episode of Climate Shifted, host Eva Frye speaks with Julie Mallat, founder of The Climate Propagandist. Julie shares how she studies propaganda and persuasion techniques to help climate advocates craft more compelling messages that stick and spread. Learn how big oil has weaponized propaganda for decades and how we can flip their tactics to drive climate action. Explore what makes messages stick, Michael Mann's 5Ds framework for understanding corporate delay tactics, and why hope might be the biggest threat to polluting industries. Transcript available here Key Topics How propaganda techniques can be used for positive climate communication The evolution of fossil fuel industry propaganda tactics Michael Mann's 5Ds framework to understand fossil fuel’s climate delay: Deflection, Delay, Division, Despair, and Doomism What makes messages stick and spread in the digital age How to measure impact in culture-based climate action Strategies for climate communicators to build effective campaigns Quotes "We're not just in a battle of science, we're in a battle of narratives." - Julie Mallat "Climate communication doesn't have to be boring or academic. It can be engaging, impactful. It can be easy to digest." - Julie Mallat "Hope is actually a direct threat to their agenda." - Julie Mallat People & Organizations Mentioned Julie Mallat - Founder of The Climate Propagandist  Michael Mann - Scientist who developed the 5Ds framework of climate delay tactics Adrienne Maree Brown - Author mentioned regarding pleasure activism Notable Ads & Campaigns Discussed Energy Transfer Hospital Ad: A controversial commercial showing a couple rushing to a hospital for childbirth, only to find it dark and empty, implying that ending fossil fuel use would lead to healthcare system failures. This exemplifies fear-based propaganda designed to convince the public that transitioning away from fossil fuels would be catastrophic. Watch here Parents for Future Campaign: An impactful campaign where British parents casually apologize for small daily mistakes before a mother looks at her baby and apologizes while climate disasters play out on TV. This campaign effectively leverages the "good ancestor frame," making people feel responsible for future generations.  Watch here Clean Creatives Campaign: Organization behind campaign calling out agencies working with fossil fuel clients. Read here JUICY BITS: Takeaways for Climate Communicators Think like a propagandist - Use the "stick and spread" method to craft narratives that both stick in people's minds and spread through populations. Use culture as a vehicle - Don't just inform people, but change what's considered normal to make sustainability mainstream. Be bold and subversive - The climate crisis is urgent, and communication tactics should reflect that urgency by challenging norms. Call to Action Subscribe to Climate Shifted wherever you listen to podcasts Follow @climateshifted and @thewclimatepropagandist on all social media platforms, and on Substack Share this episode with friends interested in climate communication