The three key insights from this episode: change is orienteering through unknown territory, not following a GPS route; organizations are addicted to efficiency when they desperately need experimentation; and the best experiments are designed to fail safely, not succeed predictably. I'm diving solo into why small experiments might be the only sane approach to change in these chaotic times. After 30 years in this game, I've learned that "change management" is mostly a delusion — you can't manage your way through the unknown. Most organizations want Google Maps for transformation, but what we're actually facing is orienteering through a misty valley with no clear path. Your company is probably designed to exploit what it knows, not explore what it doesn't, which creates a fundamental tension for anyone trying to lead change. I'll walk you through what makes a good experiment, share some strategies for convincing skeptical stakeholders, and explain why you might need to run "two books" — one official, one real. Plus, why kindergarteners consistently outperform MBA students at innovation challenges. If you're tired of change plans that feel more like wishful thinking than actual strategy, this episode offers a different way forward. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change and transformation. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Keith McCandless’s three key insights: meetings fail because we use five invisible patterns that systematically exclude people; anyone can facilitate breakthrough conversations using simple rules, no charisma required; and boosting both autonomy and responsibility simultaneously creates wildly productive teams. Most change leaders know meetings suck, but Keith McCandless, co-author of The Surprising Power of Liberating Structures, reveals exactly why. We're drowning in unconscious patterns — presentations, managed discussions, status reports — that stifle the very people we need most. But let me alleviate an anxiety you might have. You don't need to be a master facilitator to unlock your team's potential. McCandless shares simple structures that work every time, like Creative Destruction, where you imagine the worst possible outcome of your work, then stop doing whatever creates it. The real shift? Developing deeper confidence in people than they have in themselves. When you use these patterns, product managers start standing on chairs and singing their ideas (no, literally.). This conversation is candid, practical, and delightfully snarky about why traditional change management creates conformity instead of transformation. If you're tired of the usual approaches to engaging people during change, this episode offers genuine alternatives that work. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Jennifer Garvey Berger’s three key insights: connectivity matters more than individual talent in complex systems; small experiments beat both over-planning and paralysis; and stories are legitimate measures of change before numbers shift. If you've ever had a change plan that hasn't quite gone according to plan (and honestly, who hasn't?), this conversation with Jennifer Garvey Berger will shift how you think about leading transformation. She's spent three decades figuring out what actually works when everything feels unpredictable and out of control. Jennifer challenges the "all-star team" approach most of us default to. Instead, she argues for building networks of diverse perspectives because you can't predict whose viewpoint will matter most until after the fact. She also makes the case for experiments so small they feel almost trivial – like fancy lunches that generated $10 million in revenue. The key is making them smaller than you think, more fun than traditional initiatives, and designed specifically for learning rather than guaranteed success. And here's something that might surprise you: Jennifer suggests that rumors and stories are often the first real indicators of change, long before your metrics show anything. In human systems, shifting narratives actually is real change. This isn't about lighting incense and appreciating each other's light within. It's practical wisdom for navigating complexity without losing your mind. Change Signal. Where ambitious leaders find modern change mastery. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Mark Surman’s three key insights: spending years wrestling with whether your foundational values still make sense; accepting that legacy teams can't build the future, so you need separate structures; and mastering the ability to think across different timescales simultaneously. Mark Surman, Mozilla's president, shares the messy reality of transforming a 25-year-old organization for the AI era. He's replaced 60% of staff, created entirely separate companies, and spent five years questioning whether Mozilla's core values around privacy and open source even work anymore. This isn't your typical change management playbook. Mark talks about the "righteousness stick" that nonprofit employees wield to resist transformation, why he set up independent entities to avoid the innovator's dilemma, and his ongoing struggle to help people let go of the past without losing what made them special. You'll hear practical advice about validating that your communication actually landed, the temperament required to shift between strategic and tactical thinking, and why change leaders need to resist the temptation to force transformation down people's throats. Mark's honest about what's working, what isn't, and whether this whole thing might end up being a "flaming dumpster fire of disaster." If you're wrestling with organizational transformation, this conversation offers both wisdom and warnings from someone deep in the trenches. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change and transformation. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Three key insights from Anne Gotte: change management is as outdated as "personnel" organizations must diagnose their change allergies before attempting transformation; and leaders need to embrace clumsy imperfection while providing clear direction. Anne Gotte is SVP Global Talent & Organization Effectiveness at Mondelēz and she brings refreshing honesty to the messy reality of organizational transformation. She's worked at Bumble, Ecolab, and General Mills, collecting scars and wisdom along the way. This conversation challenges the traditional playbook. Anne argues that "decree change" — where executives design solutions in isolation, announce them broadly, then expect magic — as well and truly reached its expiration date. Instead, she advocates for building ongoing change capacity rather than managing episodic projects. Her approach starts with uncomfortable questions: Who are we today? What makes any change difficult for us? How do our systems contradict our change story? The discussion explores why change feels clumsy (spoiler: it's supposed to), how to honour uncertainty while providing clarity, and why slow can actually be fast. Anne's insights about getting comfortable being uncomfortable offer a different path forward for change leaders tired of pretending transformation should feel orderly and predictable. This is change leadership for grown-ups who've learned that the mess is actually the work. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change and transformation. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Three key insights: Change work isn't transformative anymore—it's operational; your organization does everything the same dysfunctional way; and everyone secretly benefits from broken patterns. My guest, Rodney Evans from TheReady, has abandoned talking about "adaptability" because people's eyes glaze over. Instead, she starts every conversation with leaders by asking about their gnarliest cross-functional problem that can't be solved. Why does this work? Because everyone has experienced that moment where important work gets "chopped up, parceled out across the org chart where it goes to die." Rodney introduces her depth-finding model — four organizational zones from sky to midnight that reveal how change actually happens. The insight that stopped me cold: how your organization does hiring is how it rewards, makes strategy, and handles everything else. A particularly uncomfortable truth? Broken organizational patterns persist because everybody gets something out of them, even while complaining. The solution involves naming the pattern and stepping outside it through small interventions in how work actually gets done. This conversation will shift how you see organizational change from discrete projects to continuous evolution. If you're tired of the same problems recurring, Rodney Evans offers a different way forward. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Could it be that your strategic planning is actually paralyzing you, your biggest critics hold the keys to breakthrough innovation, and the military metaphors you're using to lead change are fundamentally broken? Charles Conn, former McKinsey partner, former Head of Rhodes House, and current chair of Patagonia's board, brings a provocative challenge to how we think about transformation. He argues that our obsession with perfect planning is the enemy of progress in uncertain times. Instead of waiting for clarity, Conn advocates for small, reversible experiments that build capability while you learn. But here's also what’s true: you need to actively seek out the people who aren't impressed by you — the unhappy customers, the skeptical colleagues, the ones giving you one-star reviews. Conn shares a powerful framework for breaking overwhelming problems into manageable parts, focusing on high-impact, low-difficulty components. He also reveals why Amazon never bought a bank to enter financial services, and how two Stanford students disrupted orthodontics by seeing through their customers' eyes rather than the industry's. This isn't theoretical change management — it's battle-tested wisdom from someone who's led transformation at scale and lived to tell the tale. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Discover why emotional "monsters" sabotage change projects, learn the "fight it three times" rule for managing upwards, and understand why grief is the most overlooked emotion in transformation work. Molly Graham has scaled teams at Google and Meta, and now runs Glue Club for startup operators. She brings hard-won wisdom about the messy human side of change that most leaders pretend doesn't exist. The conversation digs into why competing visions create "zebra-giraffe" disasters and how to craft clarity that actually sticks. Molly shares her mentor's brilliant approach to influencing stubborn bosses without burning bridges. What I thought was most powerful? Her insight about work grief. Leaders race ahead to the future while their teams are still mourning what they're losing. It's the marathon effect — you've crossed the finish line while everyone else is still running the race. Oh, and then there's Bob. Molly's personification of the emotional chaos that comes with any change, good or bad. Once you meet Bob, you'll never look at resistance the same way. This isn't your typical change management playbook. It's real talk about the loneliness, emotion, and community that make or break transformation efforts. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Why does nobody care about your billion-dollar vision, what can Chick-fil-A teach you about bottlenecks, and how does fixing one problem always create another? Dan Heath drops some astute and provocative truths about change leadership that'll make you rethink and reset your approach to change. First up: your carefully crafted corporate vision probably sucks because it's all about hitting numbers instead of serving real people. Heath's blunt takedown of “corporate visions” is just a warm-up. He reveals how the theory of constraints can reset your change strategy by focusing obsessively on the single biggest bottleneck … and he tells a great story about Chick-Fil-a to make the point Here's the bad and the good news: solving constraints is like organizational whack-a-mole. Fix one bottleneck and another pops up somewhere else. And that gives your change process focus.  This isn't your typical transformation advice – it's provocative, practical, and grounded in real stories that'll change how you think about leverage points. Heath challenges the sacred cows of change leadership with insights you won't hear anywhere else. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Most change programs get the sequence backwards; uncertainty secretly sabotages willpower; and using your non-dominant hand might triple your success rate. My guest, Roy Baumeister, is one of psychology's rock stars, and he's spent decades studying what actually works when it comes to willpower and behaviour change. Turns out, we've (mostly) been doing it wrong. Here's the thing: everyone assumes you need to change minds before you change behaviours. Roy's research suggests the opposite. Get people acting differently first, and their attitudes will follow. Here's where it gets really interesting. Your people aren't running out of willpower during change — they're hoarding it. When uncertainty creeps in, our brains go into conservation mode, making everyone look resistant when they're actually just being smart. There’s a surprising way around that. Start ridiculously small. Roy's former student had people practice tiny willpower exercises — like opening doors with their non-dominant hand — before tackling smoking cessation. The success rate tripled. If you're leading transformation in a large organization, this episode will flip your assumptions about human behaviour, willpower, and what actually drives lasting change. Sometimes the smallest interventions create the biggest shifts. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

What if the pain you're pushing through is actually the data you need; resilience programs are burning billions on the wrong problem; and there's a psychological theory that could transform your change work, but almost no one in business knows about it? Here's the uncomfortable truth: we're living in a "chaos era" of chronic, compounding stress that our bodies weren't designed for. Traditional resilience — that "bounce back" mentality — was built for isolated crises, not the relentless multi-domain pressure your people face daily. As a change leader, it’s time to go beyond resilience … for you, your team, and for the people who you’re inviting through change. Dr. Tasha Eurich’s new book "Shatterproof" challenges the foundation of how we approach resilience. She reveals why 95% of large organizations are investing in resilience programs that aren't working. The real issue? We're ignoring three fundamental human needs rooted in Self-Determination Theory: confidence, choice, and connection. When these needs get frustrated, people develop "shadow" behaviours that sabotage your change efforts. But there's a four-step process to help your people become "shatterproof" — not just surviving change, but growing forward through it. This isn't about adding more wellness programs. It's about fundamentally reimagining how transformation actually works in the human psyche.Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change and transformation. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Could it be that the biggest barrier to change isn't resistance from others, but three voices in your own head? And what if taking action too quickly is actually making everything worse? Otto Scharmer, creator of Theory U and MIT lecturer, reveals why most transformation efforts fail at the deepest level. The problem isn't strategy or resources—it's that we're fighting internal enemies we don't even recognize. Scharmer identifies three forces that sabotage every change leader: the voice of judgment (killing creativity), the voice of cynicism (creating emotional disconnect), and the voice of fear (keeping us trapped in old patterns). Recognizing these voices is literally fifty percent of the battle. But here's the real kicker: he argues that our obsession with action is backfiring. When we jump from challenge to immediate response, we're just reacting—and reactive responses are the number one problem in organizations today. The alternative? Learning to "let go and let come"—creating space for genuinely new solutions to emerge rather than recycling the same old approaches. This isn't fluffy theory. Scharmer shares practical exercises (including one "brutal" MIT practice) and explains why the interior condition of the change leader determines whether interventions actually work. If you're tired of change initiatives that create more problems than they solve, this conversation will shift how you think about transformation forever. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Learn why trust is contextual, resistance signals engagement, and successfully navigating change requires embracing uncertainty. In this episode of Change Signal, I dive deep with Rachel Botsman, the world's expert on trust and Oxford University fellow, to explore how trust enables change — and how change can damage trust. Rachel challenges us to identify our organization's "trust states" and segment our communication accordingly, just as marketers would. What if those resistant employees aren't difficult, but deeply invested? What if your real trust influencers aren't who you expect? I love Rachel's definition of trust as "a confident relationship with the unknown." It elegantly captures the tension at change's heart and invites us to develop what Keats called "negative capability" — holding space for ambiguity instead of rushing toward false certainty. For change leaders obsessed with acceleration and momentum, Rachel offers a provocative counterpoint: perhaps fragility, care, and patience need to become part of your change vocabulary. Because as she memorably puts it, "Move fast and break things. Worst mantra ever. Don't break people." Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Discover how a simple three-role model can reveal dysfunctional patterns, what your least-played role says about your biggest triggers, and which powerful questions can transform strained relationships during change. In this LinkedIn Live, I dive into the Karpman Drama Triangle—a model I've used for 30+ years as both a self-management and change management tool. We all play Victim, Persecutor, and Rescuer roles, especially when stress levels rise during transformation initiatives. The question isn't if you'll fall into these patterns, but how quickly you can notice and exit them. Here’s a killer insight: The Rescuer might seem heroic, but this role creates victims and disempowers those around you. (Sound familiar?) Listen to the full interview to find the three questions that can pull you out of the Drama Triangle. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) 📰The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Collaborating across differences, embracing unpredictability, and balancing power with love: these are the keys to transforming your organization's most challenging dilemmas. Adam Kahane teaches us that meaningful change often demands working with people we don't agree with, like, or trust. He calls it "radical collaboration." Think you need alignment before taking action? Think again. Kahane's most counterintuitive insight is that you need far less agreement than you think to collaborate effectively. Simply connecting as fellow humans provides enough foundation to move forward together. For change leaders navigating complex transformation, Kahane offers a powerful framework: integrate power (self-realization), love (unity), and justice (fair relationships).  Without this balance, power becomes "reckless and abusive," while love remains "sentimental and anemic." Kahane's wisdom from transforming social systems — from organizations to entire countries — will challenge your assumptions about collaboration and control. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth. *** WHEN YOU’RE READY 🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!) The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly *** CONNECT 💼Connect on LinkedIn *** SAY THANKS 💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts 💚Leave a review on Spotify

Emotion in business, slowing down to speed up, and regular check-ins that boost engagement—these are the game-changers for leading transformation. In this short but powerful episode, Cassandra Worthy challenges the outdated notion that feelings have no place in organizational change. Why do we still pretend emotions don't exist in the workplace? It's absurd—and counterproductive. Cassandra argues that when we leave emotion at the door, we leave humanity behind too. Her research proves that engagement skyrockets when people can express their true feelings about change. I love her counterintuitive approach: deliberately slow down at first so you can ultimately accelerate progress. Give your team space to process and contribute before charging ahead. For experienced change leaders, this episode offers refreshing wisdom that cuts against conventional practice. Those regular emotional check-ins aren't just nice-to-haves—they're strategic tools for maintaining momentum through transformation. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change management. 🎧 New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter at thechangesignal.com.

Create to inspire forward motion, link your work to winning, and clarify who makes what decisions—these are the power moves that can elevate change work from frustrating to focused. David Lancefield brilliantly reframes "change" and "transformation" as words that trigger apathy or fear, suggesting we talk instead about creation. When you lead change initiatives, David insists you trace a clear line from your project to how the organization will win against competitors and better serve customers. Otherwise, what are you even doing? I was delighted by his practical insight on decision-making: most people with important roles can't name their top three decisions! Getting this clarity reduces bottlenecks and empowers your team. Stop being the "downstream person" waiting for strategy to drop on you. Show your relevance earlier and pitch yourself into the process with "unbridled positivity." Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change management. 🎧 New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter at thechangesignal.com.

Tension drives innovation, productive conflict is essential for change, and effective listening helps you understand what truly matters to people. Dr. Liane Davey reveals how to use conflict as a catalyst for positive change in organizations where most teams have too little productive tension, not too much. As a change leader, it turns out that your job isn't to avoid conflict but to create the right kind of "yoga uncomfortable" stretch that makes everyone stronger. Davey's tent metaphor brilliantly illustrates how teams should balance multiple tensions to achieve optimal solutions where "everyone sleeps dry tonight." I particularly love her advice on giving people an obligation to disagree rather than permission, transforming resistance into purposeful contribution. She shows us how to ask "open drawbridge questions" that help us understand the treasure people are protecting when they breathe fire. This conversation will fundamentally change how you approach resistance in your next change initiative. The skills Davey shares will help you create the forums where good fights happen and better solutions emerge. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change management. 🎧 New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter at thechangesignal.com.

Here's prototype testing, hypothesis-driven change leadership, and the power of radical differentiation all rolled into one fascinating conversation. I'm SO over slow, overplanned, change management disconnected from reality. That's why I brought in John Zeratsky, former design leader at YouTube and Google, who pioneered a process for testing new ideas in just five days. John reminds us that every change initiative is "just a hypothesis until you test it." There's always something unknowable in anything new. The magic happens when you move quickly from abstract to concrete — creating prototypes you can test rather than spending months in planning meetings. This approach builds clarity and enthusiasm across your team, and helps to persuade your stakeholders to commit. Most change efforts fail because they're not different enough. Your team thinks it's revolutionary, but stakeholders barely notice anything's changed. John's differentiation process helps identify truly transformative approaches worth the inevitable disruption. Want to make your next change project succeed? Stop with the jazz hands and vague promises. Test your hypotheses early, build quick prototypes, and ensure your change is genuinely different. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change management. 🎧 New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter at thechangesignal.com.

In this episode: Navigating uncertainty versus ambiguity, treating strategy as a living conversation, and looking beyond the obvious for weak signals. Dr. Jason Fox challenges conventional notions of change management by urging us to develop sensibilities rather than just skills. He argues that traditional scenario planning creates an illusion of control that fails when contexts shift radically. We’re both deeply skeptical of outsourcing strategy to consultants with impressive PowerPoint decks. Rather, Jason suggests cultivating in-house intelligence and attunement to what's emerging. "Strategy emerges from relationality," he explains, emphasizing the importance of collective sense-making. Perhaps most provocatively, he warns against fixating on the bright, shiny trends everyone's talking about. "When you fixate upon something that's shining bright, it means that it's harder to see what exists in the penumbra," Fox notes — encouraging leaders to develop curiosity, empathy, and attunement to weak signals. Whether you're leading transformation or just trying to stay ahead of disruption, Dr Jason Fox's perspectives offer a refreshing alternative to business-as-usual approaches. Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change management.  🎧 New episodes every two weeks. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter at thechangesignal.com.