In this rerun episode, Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh sit down with neurologist and psychiatrist Dr. Jonathan Howard, author of We Want Them Infected, to unpack one of the most controversial pandemic strategies — achieving herd immunity through infection. Dr. Howard challenges the ethics and science behind intentionally allowing widespread COVID-19 exposure, especially among children, and reflects on how politics, misinformation, and public-health messaging shaped pandemic decisions. The conversation dives into lessons learned, what we got wrong, and how medicine can do better in the face of future crises.