The episode begins with host introducing political science Professor Meg Mott, known as the ‘Constitution Wrangler’ who tackles issues regarding interpretation of US founding documents and the role of three branches of government. Mott will update info on the courts relating to two segments she helped produce on two judges who pertained to the Brattleboro area for the Brattleboro Words Trail: Judge James L. Oakes (Brattleboro) and Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Fiske Stone (Chesterfield, NH). Host interviewed Mott about the relevance of the two judge’s work on our understanding of the court system and Supreme Court today in order to update the two stories about each judge. From about 4:00 to 7:00, Mott talks about the role of judiciary in a republic, how the Constitution differentiates between the three branches of gov starting with how Article 1 lays out power in the legislature. She describes the executive and electoral college and how the judiciary lacks democratic accountability and is the weakest branch of government. She quotes Alexander Hamilton on the judiciary having ‘no sword, no purse’. She starts with Judge Oakes. He was a Nixon appointee but bucked him on Pentagon Papers case in favor of First Amendment free speech, exemplifying the ideal of an independent judiciary. Mott reminds us that the federal judiciary, many of them Trump appointees, rejectedTrump’s challenges to the 2020 election and validated election. We cut to piece on James L. Oakes narrated by Elizabeth Caitlan who worked for Judge Oakes. She describes judiciary structure and 2nd Circuit court of appeals and Oakes role in the Pentagon Papers case, the first time US gov tried to stop a newspaper (The New York Times) from running a story, ruled no prior restraint of free speech. At 9:40 we hear the voice of James L Oakes regarding the interplay between national security vs. free speech. Oakes speaks at 10:25 on the Bill of Rights ‘the idealization of our humanity.’ Caitlan tells us Oakes understood law as a developing system for managing human behavior. Describes Oakes’ relationship with Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor with whom he shared fundamental values. Oakes at 11:50 introduces pressure cooker metaphor, says thinking like a judge requires ‘kitchen wisdom and professional expertise’. At 12:40 we hear how Oakes definition of recreation helped conservationists protect land. At 13:54 the Words Trail story about Harlan Fiske Stone begins. He was 'a Wall Street guy' everyone thought would side with business and ‘liberty of contract’ during the Progressive Era, but he didn’t. He’s famous for ‘Footnote #’ which sets out ‘levels of scrutiny’ for when the Supreme Court should rule on a lower court case. Stone said court should defer to state legislatures, democratic process to make a legislative, rationale basis for law. ‘Tiers of scrutiny’ means court should defer to legislatures, but if a legislature severely restricts, discriminates against the rights of discreet minority, the supreme court should strike it down. Mott discusses how Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has been bypassing ‘tiers of scrutiny’ with strict historical assessment of texts and how ‘tiers of scrutiny’ is much more workable. She discusses how ‘operating with self-restraint’ was a Stone legacy, he understood the importance of limits. She discusses 1936 case, US v Butler, Congress enacts progressive legislation, SC Court wants to strike it, Stone dissents saying ‘Appeal lies not to the court but to the ballot and processes of democratic gov.’and how it relates to the Dobbs decision / Roe v. Wade. At 24:39 Harlan Fiske Stone story begins with Mott narration. At 28:44 discusses Footnote 4, judge will rule against anything that discriminates against a ‘discreet minority.’ We hear Stone is known for his legacy on the court for ‘exercising self restraint’ because he always understood the limits of human beings while executing the power of the court.