In this episode I'm going to be zooming out from thinking about psychedelics from an individual therapeutic perspective and taking a more systemic lens. As a part of this I'm joined by Natalie Ginsberg who has worked at MAPS since 2014. We talk about the beginnings of her work in the social justice space, her work in drug policy reform and her role as global impact officer at MAPS. We discuss the promise and complexity of psychedelics in the conflict resolution space and the importance of psychedelics for collective as well as individual healing. We also dive into how important it is to find space to process our grief and feel our joy, love and playfulness. Natalie founded the Policy & Advocacy department at MAPS, and served as its director for 5 years.  She also initiated and co-developed MAPS' Health Equity program. As Global Impact Officer, Natalie works for the responsible integration of psychedelics into mainstream culture, to help "set the setting" for an ethical global movement. Before joining MAPS, Natalie worked as a Policy Fellow at the Drug Policy Alliance, where she helped legalize medical cannabis in her home state of New York, and worked to end New York's received her B.A. in history from Yale College, and her master's of social work (M.S.W.) from Columbia University.  She is also a co-founder of the Jewish Psychedelic Summit. My website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.cm.au/ MAPS: https://maps.org/people/natalie-lyla-ginsberg/ Relational Processes in Ayahuasca Groups of Palestinians and Israelis (2021) -https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8170481/ Ripples Alliance:-  https://www.ripplesalliance.com/ Doctors without Borders: https://www.msf.org/