In this episode I talk with Marcella OT'Alora and Bruce Poulter, two people who have been instrumental in sharing knowledge of MDMA assisted Psychotherapy with 100's of trainees all over the globe. They have also supported many participants through the process of MDMA Assisted Therapy as part of their work on trials in the USA and continue to provide supervision and consultation to many people engaged in this work all over the world. In this conversation we cover many topics, including: their respective journey's into MDMA assisted therapy, what MDMA assisted therapy involves, healing through being witnessed, The importance of pacing and tailoring therapeutic approaches, the FDAs decision and how they feel about it and the importance of doing your own work as a therapist. Marcella OT'Alora has an MA in Transpersonal Psychology from Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado, and an MFA in Fine Arts from the University of North Carolina at Greensboro.  Marcela is an Installation artist, researcher, teacher, and supervisor. For 25 years she has been in private practice working primarily with trauma and specifically with PTSD. Her interest and focus on trauma led her to understand the healing journey as an intimate re-connection with one's innate essence through love, integrity, compassion, and honoring of the human spirit.  In addition to private practice, she has dedicated her professional life to training and research.  Beginning in 1999, she has worked on various studies sponsored by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) as a Principal Investigator and investogator using MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for the treatment of PTSD. Additionally, she is a lead educator and supervisor for MAPS' MDMA-assisted therapy training program. Bruce Poulter has worked much of his career with people in altered states. He was initiated into health care as an ICU nurse at UC San Francisco Moffitt Hospital when the AIDS pandemic first emerged and began devastating our communities. Later he received a MPH from UC Berkeley in Health Planning and Policy. He went on to develop public health programs including one of the first certified nurse-midwife based perinatal programs serving low income women, and a program that identified and provided care for families at risk for abuse and neglect of their children. He has worked extensively somatically with people in chronic pain and was an intimate observer of the first government approved MDMA for PTSD MAPS study in Madrid, Spain in 1999. He has offered harm reduction services thru Zendo and other organizations, was an investigator in the MAPS Boulder MDMA for PTSD Phase 1, 2 and 3 trials, is currently a Lead Educator and Mentor Supervisor for therapists working on studies for MDMA-Assisted Therapy. keep in touch with me at Insta: dresmedark Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/ website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/ Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics Find MAPS at https://maps.org Power threat meaning framework:- https://www.bps.org.uk/member-networks/division-clinical-psychology/power-threat-meaning-framework Disclaimer: This podcast is for general information only and does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic- assisted psychotherapy.