The murder of George Floyd seemed like a watershed moment. More people than ever before were protesting, calling for justice, and ready to dismantle unjust systems. With that came an influx of a lot of people who maybe had good intentions but didn’t really know what to do it. To counteract that, Jemar Tisby wrote How to Fight Racism, a practical handbook that utilizes his ARC (Awareness, Relationships, Commitment) model to guide readers toward building a better world. A year later, Tisby has returned with How to Fight Racism: Young Reader’s Edition. Aimed at kids ages 8-12, Tisby takes the same model and commonsense practicality and adapts it for kids just becoming aware of and seeking to counteract injustice. I had that chance to talk to Jemar about the book and it was a wonderful and enlightening conversation.
The Conversation | How to Fight Racism
This interview excerpt may be lightly edited for clarity and brevity. Listen to the full podcast interview at the player above or wherever you get your podcasts.
Josh Olds: Probably the number one objection that I hear whenever we try to educate children on racism, like you’re doing here, is that they’re too young for these kinds of conversations. Obviously, you don’t believe that, but how do you how do you handle that sort of objection to even begin to get the conversation going?
Jemar Tisby: I think we’ve got to realize as adults that kids are aware of a lot more than we think they are. And they’re often aware—a lot more aware—of the topics we hoped they weren’t aware of. So it could be anything from sex to racism: they know a lot more than we think they do.
There’s a famous experiment called the Doll Test where scientists showed five-year-olds white dolls and black dolls, and asked them, which was prettier, which was uglier, or which was smarter, or, you know, all of this. And then—even at that age—kids, both black and white, exhibited preferences for or more favorable attitudes towards the white dolls and had more negative associations with the black dolls. And these are kindergarteners, first graders—so it’s already happening. Our kids are already being socialized to think in racial terms.
The other thing is, when kids ask questions, that’s the perfect time to talk about it. And kids can ask questions about skin color, and about why things are the way they are at a very early age. And it’s best to respond to those questions as best you can have rather than sort of ignoring them or shuffling them off to the side because it’s “inappropriate.” So our young people are a lot more prepared, or a lot more curious, or a lot more exposed than we realize they are. They probably heard of something like Black Lives Matter. They’ve understood the necessity of protests, as high schoolers are marching in the streets to protect themselves and their classmates from shooting sprees inside their own schools. They’re mad about te earth burning up and climate change and us adults just leaving them holding the smoldering remains of what was once a beautiful earth. So they’re already sort of tuned in to these broader issues of social justice and racism is a part of that.
Josh Olds: It seems like they are able, they’re willing; they need to learn, they need to be focused. It’s like any issue in life. But I think that if we can really train this generation and give them practical things to do, beyond just social media activism—actual practical things—they can make a difference, and that that’s where your book comes in.
Jemar Tisby: Absolutely. And I just want to make another point real quickly…I do think it’s important that as adults, we don’t buy into this idea that racism is really generational,...