It was so great to chat with Kerry Donovan Brown. Kerry and I have been friends for a long time and I always love talking to them. In this conversation we talk quite a bit about work - the work of writing and the other work Kerry has been doing. Kerry's first novel Lamplighter is an amazing read. You can get a copy at the Te Herenga Waka University Press website You may notice a slight change in acoustics for the last two questions of this conversation. For years people have been telling me to get a bigger SD card and I have not. When Kerry and I were recording at Tūranga my SD card ran out of room. I'm really grateful to Kerry for coming up to the office at Te Whare te Wānanga o Waitaha which is where we took the photo at the top of this post. Thanks for listening. Action: Nothing about us without us Since this government came into power the assault on the rights of disabled people and their support networks has been continuous and cruel. I wanted to highlight a couple of ways to stay informed about what is happening if you are pre-disabled and also maybe find community if you are disabled or whanau of disabled people. Awhi Ngā Mātua - a community for parents of disabled, neurodivergent and medically fragile tamariki. They have a substack you can subscribe to here The D*List is the home of disability culture in Aotearoa. Their website is an online culture magazine that creates space for disabled people to tell our own stories through features, columns and news reporting. Here is the website for The D*List You can support Better off Read financially at Buy Better off Read a Coffee