In the 15th episode of Better Leaders - The Podcast, I’m speaking with Irving Washington, Senior Fellow at KFF (formerly Kaiser Family Foundation). Irving is focused on conducting research at the intersection of media and health misinformation. Together we analyze how to drive and sustain change in organizations. We begin by discussing what drove his relatively long tenure at ONA, what he learned from that experience and when he knew it was time to move on. Then we talk about curiosity and how it can be a beneficial trait that constitutes a good leader. We conclude by analyzing how fear can be used as a good tool to invoke change, and we also speak about organizational malpractice of using diversity and inclusivity initiatives purely as business strategies instead of actual methods of equity.