“It really caught my attention in 2016, when there was the first ever case in Canada where two platonic female friends were granted the right to be co-mothers on a birth certificate. And I thought, how astonishing is that?” ~Ellen Wiles We’ve all heard the pact two platonic friends make, that if they’re both single by 40 they’ll get married. But what about making that same pact about having children instead? Would you raise a baby with your best friend? Ellen Wiles is the author of The Unexpected, a novel which explores exactly this situation, as platonic female friends Robin and Kessie make the unconventional decision to become co-parents. The book challenges the notion of what’s ‘acceptable’ or ‘correct’ in both the eyes of the law and of society - and how our understanding of family structure is evolving with time. During this conversation Ellen and Mark chat about what it means to be a modern woman, examining the untold number of pressures put on them by societal expectation. They explore how the legal system governs much of what we believe is right, and how it so often struggles to keep up with evolving cultural norms. And they look at the many ways different societies around the world, and the animal kingdom, parent their children. In this episode, you will learn: What’s conventional may not be right - find success your way. That we can’t expect the legal system to also be our moral compass. Why we need to stop putting so much pressure on women, in all aspects of life.  Find out more about Ellen here. Your host is inkjockey founder Mark Heywood. Behind The Spine is an inkjockey production, and the audio accompaniment to The Writing Salon. Sign up to the newsletter here. Follow inkjockey on Substack here. You can buy copies of our anthology series here.  You can view the full transcript here. Connect with the show: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behindthespinepodcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BehindTheSpine Twitter: https://twitter.com/BehindTheSpine Website: www.behindthespine.co.uk