Darren welcomes Dr John Kunkel for the first time to the podcast. John is Senior Economics Adviser at the United States Studies Centre. He has worked as an economist, speech writer, policy analyst, adviser to government and industry executive. John is most well-known for being Chief of Staff to Prime Minister Scott Morrison from August 2018 to May 2022. From 2004 to 2007, he was also speech writer to Prime Minister John Howard.  John has the ideal background to discuss the current geopolitical and geoeconomic moment Australia faces. He holds a PhD in economics from ANU and understands why markets and openness have been essential to Australia’s success. But as a PM’s Chief of Staff, including during the COVID outbreak, John is well aware of the complexity of Australia’s national interests, the difficult of making policy, and the challenges posed by China and, lately, Donald Trump’s America. The conversation starts with President Trump and the United States, moves to China, and finishes at home on how Australia needs new thinking, and new policy processes, to navigate this moment in history. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links John Kunkel (bio): https://www.ussc.edu.au/john-kunkel Adam Posen, “Trade wars are easy to lose”, Foreign Affairs, 9 April 2025: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/tariffs-trade-wars-are-easy-lose Yuval Levin Wikipedia page (author of “The Great Debate”, “The Fractured Republic” and “A Time to Build”): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuval_Levin Thomas Sowell, A Conflict of Visions (1987): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Conflict_of_Visions James Q Wilson, The Moral Sense (1993): https://www.simonandschuster.com.au/books/The-Moral-Sense/James-Q-Wilson/9780684833323 China Talk (podcast), “Ezra, Derek and Dan Wang”, 9 May 2025: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/abundance-and-antagonism