In this episode, I sit down with Ashton Bishop, CEO of Step Change, to talk all things marketing, such as why so much of it fails, and how challenger businesses can cut through the noise without outspending their competition. We trace Ashton’s journey from co-creating 'R U OK? Day' to building a consultancy that helps companies, from small trades businesses to ASX-listed giants, unlock real growth. We unpack why too many organisations chase short-term tactics without a strategy, why distinctiveness beats differentiation, and how understanding behavioural economics can transform cut-through and conversion. We also explore practical tools like the “Value Visualiser” that can triple proposal conversions, why B2B buying decisions are still emotional at their core, and how AI, when used wisely, can deliver meaningful wins rather than just “garbage at the speed of light.” TIME STAMPS: 02:59 – What Step Change does and growth stories from $2M to $1B 06:08 – Ashton’s backstory: from R U OK? Day to launching Step Change during the GFC 12:51 – Why most businesses fail at marketing despite more channels and data 14:50 – The “four Ps” approach vs. ad-first tactics; the RAM framework (Result, Audience, Message) 17:38 – The “rocket from a canoe” analogy and the need for long-term, consistent marketing 20:43 – AI in marketing – opportunities and risks 23:36 – B2B vs. B2C: emotional decision-making and why the shortlist matters 32:18 – Real-world example: how a Value Visualiser tripled conversion rates 36:22 – Behavioural economics and distinctiveness: cutting through in crowded markets