In this episode, Mr Mark Beer OBE spoke with Dr Sam Muller. During this fascinating discussion, Dr Muller compared legal and medical sectors, spoke about ‘justice epidemiology’ and justice’s impact on the economic development. He also shared his view about the ways to help lawyers become more innovative and what we can learn from green economy. The final part of the podcast episode was devoted to the challenges that justice ministers around the world face and Dr Muller’s three pieces of advice on designing a perfect justice system.