Guest: Dr. Ellen Joan Ford, Author of #WorkSchoolHours, TEDx Speaker, and Leadership Consultant

Episode Summary

In this episode, Alex Gafford talks with Dr. Ellen Joan Ford, former New Zealand Army Officer, researcher, and author of #WorkSchoolHours. Together they unpack how the modern 9–5 is failing working parents and what it looks like to redesign work around real life.

Dr. Ford shares the three core principles behind the Work School Hours movement,  valuing life outside work, focusing on outputs (not hours), and enabling flexibility, and how these ideas benefit both families and businesses.

From military leadership lessons in Antarctica to corporate case studies, this conversation explores the future of work for parents, leaders, and anyone who believes there’s a better way to work and live.

 Key Themes & Ideas

1.  Why the 9–5 Is Broken for Parents

• The mismatch between school schedules and work hours creates impossible pressure for working families.
• Most parents fall into one of three categories: forced out, burned out, or underpaid for part-time overload.
• Dr. Ford’s research reveals that this “societal-wide gaslighting” punishes efficiency and it’s time to change that.

 2. The Fourth Option: Work School Hours

• A model built on outputs, not hours.
• Flexible, high-trust work cultures boost both productivity and retention.
• Why guilt-free parenting and high performance are not mutually exclusive.

3.  Leadership Lessons from the Military

• How an Antarctic mission taught Ellen the power of focusing on outcomes over hours.
• Why output-based work makes teams more autonomous, motivated, and innovative.

4. Flexibility Beyond the Office

• Real-world examples of flexibility in healthcare, construction, farming, and emergency services.
• How even shift-based industries can offer family-aligned schedules with creativity and collaboration.

 5. Why This Makes Business Sense

• The data: flexible work drives higher retention, better recruiting, and improved well-being,  all leading to stronger performance.
• Happy people simply do better work.

Takeaways

• The Work School Hours movement isn’t just about parents, it’s about designing work for real life.
• Time is our most valuable asset, and flexibility is the modern workforce’s ultimate benefit.
• When people can thrive at home, they perform better at work.

 Resources & Links

• Website (Book & TEDx Talk): ellenjoanford.com
• Connect with Dr. Ford: LinkedIn – Dr. Ellen Joan Ford

Connect with Alex: LinkedIn - Alex Gafford

• Listen to all episodes of The 5-Hour Formula Podcast

Next Episode

Next up in this new series of conversations with experts reimagining work around the world, Alex Pang joins the show.
He’s the author of The Distraction Addiction, Rest, and Shorter, and one of the leading voices in the global movement to work less and live better.
In this all-time classic conversation, we dive into the science of rest, the 4-day week revolution, and how to design a workday that maximizes creativity, focus, and fulfillment.